Is the 6.0 really worth fixing? - TheDieselGarage.com
Thread Details Posted by Dirtmaly, this thread has received 23 replies and been viewed 1532 times.

 22Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Anderson SC
Posts: 7
Points: 662
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
Is the 6.0 really worth fixing?

Hello All,
I have an 04 F350 4wd with a 6 speed. The 6.0 is out and ready for me to tear into it. I haven't bought any parts yet. I realized that i've been at this point for time now. I can't get past the idea that even if I spend thousands of dollars in new parts and a ton of time, I'm still going to have a 6.0. I've heard great things from folk's right after they pour thousands of dollars into them. I haven't heard a sound from anyone 100K+ afterwards.
I've researched changing to 7.3, 5.9, 6.6 ford, even a 3208 Cat, none looked cost effective
Most recently, I've been looking at installing a V10 because it looks like it will be easiest and least expensive.
Obviously bottom line cost is an issue.

I would sure be grateful to hear some experience, good, bad, or indifferent? Any and all would be appreciated.
Best Regards


Favorite quote " education is expensive and it don't matter where you get it"
Dirtmaly is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 07:32 AM
Junior Member
 
Jasong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Plant City Fl
Posts: 201
Points: 7,825
Thanks: 36
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
I've always heard that once they are "bulletproofed" you're good to go.
Jasong is offline  
post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 01:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,199
Points: 63,886
Thanks: 186
Thanked 397 Times in 268 Posts
Your post/question isn't specific enough.

What do you want?

Longevity?
Power?
Towing?
All of the above?
Can you do the work yourself?
If not, do you have a shop that you are CONFIDENT that they know what they are doing with a 6.0L?

Lastly, the amount of work you need to do MAY depend on how well the truck/engine was cared for by previous owners.

Love mine 191k miles. Still on original turbo and injectors.

Things to know:
The 04 was a model change year. Early 04's have quite a few differences from later year 04's. You need to know which you have.

Your rebuild list (should you do it) is important to get right.

Do your research. Post up your plans. Then get feedback.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270AXP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD BilletWaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
bismic is offline  
 
post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Anderson SC
Posts: 7
Points: 662
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
I had always heard the same thing. Have a good friend with an 04 that was bulletproofed by a very reputable garage a 18 months ago. He's having problems again, now. That got me thinking, I can't recall anyone making a statement about the condition of there bulletproofed diesel after, say a hundred thousand miles?

"Education is expensive and it don't matter where you get it."
Dirtmaly is offline  
post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Anderson SC
Posts: 7
Points: 662
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
I appreciate your reply. Actually I was hoping to get some input as to which direction is the best to go. I'm glad to hear that you have 190K on your truck. Makes me curious to know if you have had to bulletproof your engine?
My truck is an early 04. The replacement engine was also an 04, government surplus, reported to have 160K when the new owner's son wrecked it. No way of knowing if it's early or late? That is the way i got the truck. My original idea was to drop a 7.3 in it, until i learned i would have to rewire the entire truck. wiring isn't my long suit.
I'm not worried about HP, my n/a 7.3's have plenty of power for what i do. I'm wanting an engine as reliable as the 6.9's, 7.3's and 6.6's I've been using for the last thirty years.
As a young man I built three hotrod motors for my cars, over the years I've restored a half dozen vehicles, most ground up. The last motor i built was a 304 for the CJ5 I was building, that was 93 or 94. I still remember everything i did, although all engines have changed a ton since then.
If this is going to get done I will do it. I could buy another truck for what I would have to pay someone else.

"Education is expensive and it don't matter where you get it."
Dirtmaly is offline  
post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 06:54 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,199
Points: 63,886
Thanks: 186
Thanked 397 Times in 268 Posts
Early 04's have the ICP sensor under/behind the turbo. The late 04's have it on the passenger valve cover.

The late 04's (and up) have the wavy oil rails which have dummy plugs that tend to leak (but they could have been replaced already).

To me the big disappointment for the 03 and all 04 model years is the high pressure oil pump. The ones from ford just aren't reliable. The aftermarket Adrenaline pumps are good though.

Properly rebuilt, you can easily get 300k miles of reliability.

List of major items in a rebuild on a vehicle that you don't fully know the history:

Adrenaline HPOP (use Motorcraft gaskets and o-rings)
Dummy plugs
Standpipes
New heads w/ ARP head studs
have the intake cleaned in a hot tank
pushrods
rockers and lifters
EGR cooler with the round tubes (if it is a late 04 it has a weak EGR cooler) or an EGR delete.
injectors (if the injectors that are in it seem to be OK for now, I would re-seal them and reuse them)
I would probably install a new oil cooler also. I like OEM oil coolers. Some people insist on the BPD external oil cooler
glow plugs
Water pump
Maybe/maybe not on the turbo.
FICM rebuilt
make sure the alternator is solid and the batteries are load checked
coolant flush and go back in with CAT EC-1 rated ELC coolant
new charge air cooler (CAC) boots
who knows about the radiator - your call!

You may have perfectly good heads (flat and no cracks) but you would at least have to have that all checked out.

Getting the proper parts is important as I indicated with the HPOP.

This is also VERY true with heads, head gaskets, head studs, injectors, EGR coolers, and oil coolers.

Go cheap and you will regret it.

With your background and ALL the documentation (and videos) on proper ways to do the work on the 6.0L, you should have no problem building a reliable ride.
Dirtmaly likes this.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270AXP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD BilletWaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 02-19-2017 at 07:14 PM.
bismic is offline  
post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 11:09 PM
Stuck in Commiefornia...
 
IdahoF350's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Utah, SLC area.
Posts: 1,292
Points: 73,783
Thanks: 102
Thanked 446 Times in 315 Posts
Garage
There are a lot of factors at play with the 6.0 and most of them are not in your favor. The engine has some design flaws, they never should have sandwiched the heads under the rocker carrier. The dissimilar expansion rates of the aluminum rocker carrier and iron head are an issue. Then there is the head bolt issue, addressed in the 6.4 by increasing the bolt size by 2mm, the bolts are not sufficient to retain the clamp load on the rocker carrier and cylinder head. Adding to the issue is the lack of fasteners, at 10 vs 17 on the 7.3 you barely have 55% of the effective clamp load.

More concerning are the under developed peripheral systems. The oil cooler is too small and poorly designed, the high pressure oil system is a collection of flawed connections in the name of manufacturing ease, and in its short production life it changed multiple times. Then there is the emissions issue. Let's face it, Navistar and Ford were spitballing here, they hoped it would work, and they were wrong. Now a lot of states are checking to make sure this equipment is present at inspection and functional, so the early bulletproof/delete philosophy is proving risky for registration and avoiding fines for deletion or deactivation.

Is a swap worth it? No. Put the truck back to stock, sell it and buy what you want. If you don't need big power, there are lots of older trucks out there that are in good shape and will get the job done just fine. Now, of the trucks to do a swap on, a 6-speed manual is by far the easiest to put any of the 5.9 or 6.7 Cummins engines in. The newer and more powerful you go, the more you'll spend though. I almost did this to my '05 but in CA it was going to prove impossible to pass inspection due to difficulties with the swap. I'll reiterate, put it back to stock, sell it, and get a different truck that won't cause you the heartache the 6.0 or a swap will.

Now, if you are going to rebuild everything, ending up with an essentially new 6.0, upgrade the EGR cooler to the BPD unit, remote mount the oil cooler, do head studs, and make sure everything is right at the machine shop. Use new Alliant injectors and replace anything that is questionable in, on, or around that engine. Break it in, put it on synthetic 10w-30, add Archoil, don't pass 5,000 miles on the oil or 15,000 on fuel filters, run the Cummins Extended Life coolant from day one, and yeah, you might have a good shot at 300K+ without problems. But that's a lot of effort on one of these trucks, weigh carefully how the money you'll spend to accomplish all that can be used towards an '05-10 with a 3-Valve V-10 or a different diesel. Just stay clear of the 6.4L PSD too, they're stupid expensive to fix when they have issues.
Dirtmaly likes this.

The Current Truck (Oct-2013 to Present):
1999 (Early) F-350 Lariat, CCLB, SRW, Black/Tan

7.3L Powerstroke, 4R100, 4x4, 3.73, 37x13.50-18s, '05 Axle Swap, 6" Fabtech lift, GTP38 "D66" turbo upgrade, SCT 4-position chip with custom tuning by me, Straight Piped 4" down pipe through 5" dual stacks, N-Fab full length triple steps, Pro-Tech cab guard and tool box, louvered 5th wheel gate, Hella 500 Fog and Driving lamps, much more to come...
The one I'll miss, (Mar-2009 to Jan-2014):
2000 Excursion XLT 4x4

6.8L V-10, 4R100, 4.30, 285/75-18, 271whp / 388wtq
The one I won't, (Jul-2005 to Sep-2012):
2005 F-350 XLT, CCLB, SRW, 4x4 FX4

6.0L PSD, ZF-6S650, 3.73, 35x12.5-18, 4.5" Lift
IdahoF350 is offline  
post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 12:39 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,199
Points: 63,886
Thanks: 186
Thanked 397 Times in 268 Posts
Wow. Hate to come across as arguing, but I disagree on a few points.

Lots of people WELL OVER 200k miles without problems. They can be made reliable - period. Yes the head bolts should have been better and the head castings should have been better. There are solutions. I can give you names of shops that you can talk to if you are interested. They will tell you the truth - even if you are not close enough for them to expect work from it.

Stock oil cooler is working just fine for me and for many/many owners. I am tuned and holding oil temperature just fine - have no reason to change it. The main thing is to use the correct coolant so it (the oil cooler) doesn't clog up. I know many people disagree, but the way too many people do not experience oil cooler problems to deny it works - as long as they don't plug up the coolant flow (and they won't with proper maintenance).

Lastly - I wouldn't recommend Alliant injectors either. Ford remans are the only way to go IMO. They rebuild/replace parts that others don't (primarily new spool valves). There are no more new injectors, so only remans available.

Definitely flaws (heads, head bolts, quality control, high pressure oil system, EGR system). Fixes for all of the exist. One of the shops I am referring to has a 6.0L well over 500k miles. He has done some major work on it because around 350k miles he had a lifter failure. Anyway he has the experience to give you the straight scoop.

I will agree that they just won't achieve the reliability that the 7.3L had, but what you can achieve is plenty good.
Dirtmaly likes this.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270AXP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD BilletWaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 02-20-2017 at 12:45 AM.
bismic is offline  
post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 02:00 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Anderson SC
Posts: 7
Points: 662
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Garage
Gentleman?,
I am grateful for your input. That is exactly what I was hoping for. Honest, real world experience with 6.0's. I've been doing my homework on cost for rebuild parts. Ouch, shucks, the extensive top end rebuild kits for these engines are expensive. I keep thinking if I'm that far in another 2K +/- and I've got the whole thing done? I would want the block decked anyway, can't imagine line boring would hit much harder while I'm there. If I build this, I'm going all in. I simply can't afford to be stuck on the road, hauling a 35' sailboat for a customer.
I'm really uncomfortable with fixing enough to sell, that kinda stuff come's back all to quick at my house.
We've been logging between 489 - 663 thousand miles on my 6.9 & 7.3's and 785 thousand on my 6.6. Dealer's really wanted all of them when I traded them in? go figure? All ran perfectly, the bodies were literally falling apart around them.

I'm still going to look at the cost of a V10 conversion. I am seeing them all over with 350 - 500 thousand miles on them and I can't find a sole that has a bad word to say about them. I will likely end up rebuilding the 6.0, just seems like a ton of hard earned cash for not many miles. I absolutely understand the apple and orange thing.
Best Regards


"The main problem with aging is remembering how cheap stuff was back in the day."

"Education is expensive and it don't matter where you get it."
Dirtmaly is offline  
post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 03:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,199
Points: 63,886
Thanks: 186
Thanked 397 Times in 268 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtmaly View Post
I had always heard the same thing. Have a good friend with an 04 that was bulletproofed by a very reputable garage a 18 months ago. He's having problems again, now. That got me thinking, I can't recall anyone making a statement about the condition of there bulletproofed diesel after, say a hundred thousand miles?
If the mechanics were not specifically knowledgeable with the 6.0L, they could easily have missed things. Seen it a ton. Some shops think very highly of themselves and that gets in the way of learning all of the specific needs of special situations/engines. Also, very few people go deep enough to resolve all of the problems.

Again, the 6.0L forums are very active and I have little doubt you can find a very experienced shop not too far away - IF you need assistance (in things like machine shops, etc)!

Too many people have great/reliable trucks for it to be "just their good luck" to get a fluke engine that is powerful and reliable.

I believe in fluke problems. I do not believe in fluke reliability.

dtw - I had my head studs installed by a shop not to far from you - it was done by Trucks Unlimited in Winston-Salem. They are great folks. That was one shop I was gong to suggest you talk to. The owner is a Mod on another forum.
Dirtmaly likes this.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270AXP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD BilletWaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 02-22-2017 at 03:48 AM.
bismic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TheDieselGarage.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about fixing my door. miller The Detailing, Paint & Bodyshop 1 07-29-2011 10:36 AM
fixing the turbo pedistal cong 1994-2003 7.3L Power Stroke 2 06-14-2009 05:53 AM
AC inop after fixing kdp ronald2009 5.9L Cummins 12 Valve (1994-1998.5) 4 08-26-2007 02:36 AM
no oil pressure after fixing leak smokin dually 1994-2003 7.3L Power Stroke 7 02-11-2007 02:03 AM
Fixing pictures lost during the upgrade partsguy662 Site Information 3 08-14-2005 08:45 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome