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6.0 that starts, runs for 10 seconds, then abruptly dies

60K views 34 replies 7 participants last post by  KET19 
#1 ·
I HOPE ONE OF YOUALL CAN HELP. i JUST CHANGED OUT THE EXAUST y PIPE on an 03 --6.0. put new IPR valve & ICP with new ends on both as they had been melted from hot ex. Also cleaned the turbo & checked the solinoid. All seem to be ok. My old vcm indicated I had a problem with CMP. Put in a new one as they aren't expensive. Got it buttoned up and when it started, I got the usual hit & miss untill yhe air was purged from high press. oil. Now it starts with no problem(2.5 seconds crank time)but only runs for 10 seconds and just dies. Abruptly. Let it sit for 1/2 minute and do another start,run,die.HELP. My VCM died and is in the shop so I don't have a source to check with. Any ideas???????:bdh:help
 
#2 ·
If the truck ran before the work was done and now it won't, need to recheck the repair steps. Having a ScanGauge2 would help tremendously in reading actual values from sensors replaced. Since the IPR and ICP are close to each other on 03' models, you didn't by chance get the wires mixed up? It probably has to be one of the sensors replaced, as the turbo and exhaust repairs would not cause it to not run. Another possibility is a weak FICM. Recheck all connections of everything that was taken apart. Lets us know what you find, and good luck.

Harry
 
#3 ·
Thanks Harry for the reply. The truck was DOA when it was trailered in. The Y pipe was broken in 2 places due to the owners previous egr delete self help. Consequently, the ex. gas burned off the wires on the icp & ipr. Replaced both plus new wire ends. the icp has 3 wires. the ipr has only 2. Before my vcm died the death, it showed a bad cmp and no ficm sync. I replaced the cmp. The eng. starts good and will idle for 10 seconds then die . It doesn't matter if I rev the eng, it still runs for 10 sec. Makes me believe it is something in ign. circuit. Will have to borrow a friends MODUS. All help is appreciated. Seems the more I learn, the less I know. Imagine that. Thanks agn. BOB
 
#4 ·
6.0 that runs: dies

I borrowed a snapon MODIS and got a P1725. Doesn't mean anything. Problem is the eng. will not run long enough to scan. Am in the process of air checking high pressure oil. Got the ICP out & my adapter installed and compressor died the death. Had to hoist it off my truck and disassembled all over the driveway & spent all day repairing. Tomorrow is the day of truth. I am praying something in the high press. oil is the problem. I'll let you know. Cheers.:salute:read:stars
 
#6 ·
Thanks for your suggestion. However, When I air checked the high press. system, I found the problem. Or at least a major prob..Bad air leak on both stand pipes to the oil manifolds. Am waiting on 1 more pipe & I can check again.Thanks agn. I'll post how it goes. Tomorrow I have an allison to R&R in a Volvo tractor so can't do the 6oh until Monday. Cheers. Bob:salute
 
#7 ·
:goodvsevilReplaced both down pipes, & guess what?. Still leaks. pulled hpop cover & found bad cover seal. Pulled pump & replaced all (o) rings, reinstalled cover and praise God, no more air leaks. Almost have it ready to start. Will let you know how it goes.---Bob:toytruck:sleep
 
#8 ·
Whats the mileage on this truck? Look forward to the outcome, and hope this fixes it.

Harry
 
#9 ·
6 oh blues

IT HAS 50XXXMILES SHOWING, BUT TRUCK IDLED ALMOST EVERY DAY FOR ALL THOSE YEARS AT DISNEY IN ORLANDO. I DID THE MATH (25 MILES=1hour) 5 days a week, for 7 hours a day etc. so 250k would be a reasonable figure for eng. miles. No big surprise that the business that bought it are having a nightmare.(So am I for that matter) I'm gitting a years worth of schooling in a short time.I am a fairly quick study, so the next one will not beas much of a problem. (maybe!)See ya---Bob:wedgie:confused::haha
 
#10 ·
So I'm guessing you got it running and it's all good now?

Harry
 
#11 ·
6 oh blues

In a nut sheel, noooo. Got it back together today, & I still have the same basic prob.. I've done the normal things that usually work. Every thing I repaired was needed. I suppose I am now down the the real problem. The MODIS says the fuel supply is 100%.? I'm not familiar with that reading. Tomorrow I will do a fuel supply test. If that is o.k., I am (will be) at an impasse. The learning curve is killing me!:goodvsevil:haha:haha &:gaah.Well, (a very deep subject) tomorrow is another day C Ya.:night
 
#12 ·
What is the FICM voltage? Should read 48v at all times, a typical failing FICM can fluctuate voltages and have as low as 36v and still fire the injectors, but when it drops to 24v it will stall and not run. Like I mentioned earlier, having a Scangauge2 is a great device for these trucks (about $150 tool), as it will read all critical data for the 6.0, much more than most any scan tool out there, including SnapOn Modus. Basic parameters to make these trucks run is, fuel pressure must be 45psi or higher / hi pressure oil (ICP) must be 500psi or higher to start the engine / IPR should typically read in the 50% range when cranking over to start, once started should read 20-25% at idle, IPR range is 15-85%, 85% being fully closed and trying to build ICP as high as possible, 15% being fully open and bypassing hi pressure oil back to the pan. Good luck, and keep us posted on the outcome.

Harry
 
#13 ·
6 OH blues

I hept messing with the modis & got the data I was looking for, sort of. It showed 12 vdc supply ., 48.5 vdc ficm & it started & ran for abt 8 or 10 seconds. The ipr was 2945 or there abouts. the icp was close to the same. Then it died, & i watched the pressures drop to nothing. Then tried it agn. & no ficm voltage & got new dtc's. 105:lost com. with ficm;2614 & 2617: CMP & CKT output open. I don't believe both are bad. CMP is new. I'm with you on bad ficm. My rotunda VCM is on the way back from repairs; should have it tomorrow. It is the real Ford deal. Will see what ti indicates.I now believe the voltage reg in the ficm is in the toilet. At this time, the eng will not fire except on starting fluid, I don't like to use it on pwr strokes. Bad news. Anywho, I had to walk away from it and do a few paying jobs.:gaah. C YA Later Bob
 
#15 ·
Check all fuses, especially cig lighter fuse, as it's the same one that powers up the obd2 port, even though you did say you have 12v at the obd2 already, never can be sure though.

Possible ignition switch issue too, or fuses in small relay box on drivers side engine compartment, or possibly the PCM behind the drivers battery isn't connected properly.

Thats all I can think of at the moment, may need to break out the wiring diagram.

Harry
 
#16 ·
6.0 blues

:bang.I think my head hurts!.Last week, I had 55# fuel pressure. today , none. The pump runs, but no pressure at the fuel reg. To late today to mess with it. Tomorrow, I will plumb in a hose & a valve so I can see for myself the volume or the lack of. I should prabably stick to the old mechanicals that I know something abt. What an education!:bluesbros ain"t got nothin on me.:imok---Bob
 
#17 ·
Hang in there Bob, at least you have a clear symptom to follow.

The worst ones for us techs are the intermittent symptoms that leave endless possibilities to chase. Process of elimination is sometimes the only path to follow.


Harry
 
#18 ·
Another day, another wasted hour. Turns out, the fuel pressure came up to 55# after I purged the air. It started(with a little gasoline help) for a few seconds & the pressure stayed @55# until it died. Will not start on its own. Checked FICM voltage (should be 48) & got 0. Not sure how to check to see if it has12 vdc going in. Any help here is appreciated:bang:fan
 
#19 ·
ScanGauge2 is what most of us long time 6.0 owners are using these days. Ficm logic(12v), and main power(48v), can be read from the drivers seat with one of these. Scroll down the x-gauge feature page to the Ford 6.0 diesel and you will see some of the stuff this little gem can read. Heres the link below,

http://www.scangauge.com/support/x-gauge/ford-specific-xgauges/

I would also check the small fuse box on the drivers side engine compartment and make sure the ficm fuse and relay is good. If you are turning the key on to the glow plug position and do not here the injector spool valves buzzing/clicking, then your ficm is dead.

Harry
 
#20 · (Edited)
I used my logic probe to check the fuses. The one to the front(20amp) good. The next one showed negative(ground). pulled the fuse & it is good. May mean the relay is bad,;don't know which relay is for the FICM.As a side note, when I turn the key on, the injectors do thier little buzz & the fuel pump comes to life.I had 0 voltage at the FICM static or cranking.I need a schematic of this monster.:bdh:soapbox.Well, it's Saturday & instead of fishing, I get an all day welding job on a trash compactor at a paper shreading co. I told the man if the place catches fire, If the crane is up, i'll make him a new door @ no extra charge.:peelout.The 6.0 will have to wait for THOR to get here from Greece!.C Ya---Bob P.S.---Harry, can I use the scan guage like I use my IDS/VCM? I'm guessing it is meant to be installed permanently, rather than gen. diag. Thanks for your input.
 
#21 ·
It comes standard with around 10 basic common generic sensor readings available to see already coded into the unit, you have to add the x-gauge readings by coding in the sequence numbers provided. Once they are coded in, they are always available to scroll through and read unless you erase them. It will hold about 35 different sensor/parameter readings in all. You can switch it from truck to truck, but if it's a different brand/model vehicle, then the x-gauge coding would need to be changed, but between 6.0 powerstrokes you can just plug into the obd2 port and read whatever you have already coded in. The reason it's so popular among 6.0 powerstroke owners is it gives a wealth of live data in a compact fairly inexpensive device.

Found a link to a ficm diagram below,

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/at...317784721-ficm-problem-any-ideas-untitled.jpg

Harry
 
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#22 ·
Bob it's definitely worth it. You can pick them up for less than $170 or the cost of two nice size fire extinguishers. :D. Be careful on your arcs and sparks job I hate losing potential customers. :goodluck

Wes
 
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#23 ·
scanguage2

Thanks Harry for the link. I had no idea the unit was plug & 'play'. I figured it was hooked up to all the goodies. I have 1 more question, before I get one. Will the same unit transfer fron different engines? Actually, my question is if I get one, will I be able to diag. different obd2 vehicles without reprograming? I'm gonna get one, just wondering how versatile. Thanks guys. By the way, I had 2 guys putting out little fires as I cut with the airarc. So far, I'm still alive. C Ya.---Bob:happydance
 
#26 ·
Thanks Harry for the link. I had no idea the unit was plug & 'play'. I figured it was hooked up to all the goodies. I have 1 more question, before I get one. Will the same unit transfer fron different engines? Actually, my question is if I get one, will I be able to diag. different obd2 vehicles without reprograming? I'm gonna get one, just wondering how versatile. Thanks guys. By the way, I had 2 guys putting out little fires as I cut with the airarc. So far, I'm still alive. C Ya.---Bob:happydance
You can read fault codes and the 10 basic parameters that it comes with on any model without reprogramming, but to read the x-gauge data, reprogramming the x-gauge coding sequence numbers would be necessary.

If you go into ScanGauge website and go to the x-gauge page, you will see all the different brands and coding that is available to read, but does require a phone number (coding sequence numbers) coded in. The first time you code in the x-gauge numbers it seems like a pain, but after doing a few it gets real easy. Best to printout the page of numbers you want to have coded in and read off the paper, unless you have laptop or big phone screen on hand in your truck.

http://www.scangauge.com/support/x-gauge-commands/


Harry
 
#25 ·
The ficm main voltage (48v) can only be read by the ScanGauge2 or by removing the small cover on the ficm itself and probing, heres some info from Ed's ficmrepair.com website.

On the top of the FICM there is a small rectangular plate held on with two T20 torx screws. Remove these and you'll see four or seven screws, depending on your model.

For Four Screw Models - place your volt meter's positive lead on the screw closest to the driver side of the vehicle - BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL NOT TO LET THIS LEAD SHORT OUT TO THE CASE. Place the meter's negative side lead on the negative terminal on one of the batteries. To prevent the lead from touching the case, many wrap all but the lead tips in electrical tape.

For Seven Screw Models - place your volt meter's positive lead on the screw closest to the PASSENGER side of the vehicle in the row with four screws - BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL NOT TO LET THIS LEAD SHORT OUT TO THE CASE. Place the meter's negative side lead on the negative terminal on one of the batteries. To prevent the lead from touching the case, many wrap all but the lead tips in electrical tape.

You are looking for anything above 45 volts (48 is ideal) with the key in the on position and for this voltage to not drop during cranking and running.

If your voltage is lower than 45 (the owner's Excursion was setting at less than 30 volts as an example), repair is needed. If you show zero volts out of the FICM, check your FICM fuse - it is a 50amp maxifuse typically located in the panel behind the driver's left knee in (typically) position 103.

If your voltage DOESN'T drop below 45 and you want a more difficult stress test on your module, look for less than 45 volts in the morning when the engine is completely cold. You are looking to test the voltage during the following events:

1. Key off (0 volts)
2. Key on during buzz test (48 volts)
3. Key on after buzz test (48 volts)
4. Cranking (48 volts)
5. Running IMMEDIATELY after cold start and for the first minute (48 volts)
6. RPM's at 2000 after it's been started for a minute (48 volts)

Again, if the voltage drops below 45, even for a second, during any of these tests, the FICM needs repair.

Of course, it's materially easier to review these voltages with a monitor like the ScanGauge II or, even better, the Edge Insight CTS.


Harry
 
#27 ·
scanguage2

Thanks Harry. I checked the FICM logic voltage ,as stated earlier, with 0 results. I'll go out & check the ficm (location103) 50 amp fuse again. What is the relays under the hood beside the left hand hinge? It has 2 fuses & 2 relays. As for the scanguage2 I am gonna get one this evening or tomorrow at latest. It will be so much easier to use than my IDS?VCM., with laptop. The VCM will still do things the scanguage won't , but won't have to use it nearly as often. Thanks agn & have a gr8 day!:rock.---Bob
 
#28 ·
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#29 ·
6 Oh!

:bluesbrosWell, like I stated a few weeks ago,----oh, I don't know. What I do know, the FICM was the problem .By Monday it will be in capable hands in Coolidge,Ia. Nozzlemasters, a local fuel inj. shop loaned me a ficm to try & :woohoo, it started & idled. I've fingerprinted just abt every part,relay,wire con. on this thing. I have had a 2 semester course on 6 ohs. The hard way is the way to learn , I suppose. OK, I'll get off my:soapbox. Praise God anyhow. C Ya.---Bob:roflol:
 
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