2006 Cummins 5.9 EGR delete help - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-08-2011, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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2006 Cummins 5.9 EGR delete help

I have a 2006 ISB 5.9 engine # 46613169 that came from a motorhome along with the Allison 6 speed that was attached. I need to remove the watercooled EGR circuit in order to get it to fit in the new application. Is there a kit, or any information I can reference for this modification? Any help is greatly appreciated!!


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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-11-2011, 01:55 PM
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I don't know about a kit, you could probably fab up some block-off plates. I would be more concerned about the ECM side of things. I wonder if it would throw codes if the EGR is unhooked? I'm not sure. I know on the 6.7's you can take off the actuator but have to leave it plugged in.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-11-2011, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure about the ECM either. One guy I talked with is pretty sure it will work, but thinks the check engine light will stay on. He's doing a little research into reflashing the ECM to a pre-EGR program...but as of today, nothing for sure.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 01:21 AM
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The ECM is a different part from pre EGR to EGR engines.
I'm not sure that the older flash file will work in the newer ECM.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-15-2011, 07:22 PM
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Complicated mess I'm afraid. First, you probably have a Freightliner configuration ECM. Do NOT waste time or money trying to make that engine into a dodge configuration. It won't work. Cam and Crank sensors are located at a different spot. Been there, done that. Also, the VGT, EGR and ECM are all designed to work together, and I cannot figure out a way to make an identical system run without all of that.
Meanwhile, I'm interested in exactly which transmission you have and how it interfaces with the ECM. I'm setting up my 5 speed Allison 1000 as a stand-alone unit with the ECM thinking the tranny is a manual set up. Any enlightenment you could give me would be appreciated.
thanks- clam

clam
2000 Excursion Promethius :evil:
Cummins 24 valve common rail, VGT
Allison 5 speed auto
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-15-2011, 09:47 PM
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Oh yeah- after 3 years of fighting it, I'm spending my day today reinstalling all of that stuff you want to remove from yours just so I can get mine started. So I'm not joking...sadly.
There may be some differences though- mine is a rear gear train ISBe (echo) which was designed to meet European Union noise and emission requirements. But if there is ONE lesson I've learned in this process, it is this: Cummins engineering is proprietary and actually quite good. Best to leave it EXACTLY as designed until you have proof at someone else's expense that it can be modified.
BTW, thanks for posting the photos- Good reminder of where everything goes.
Feel free to call me to share info- 253-777-2343

clam
2000 Excursion Promethius :evil:
Cummins 24 valve common rail, VGT
Allison 5 speed auto
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-17-2011, 01:17 AM
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Now I remember why I took the VGT off the engine in the first place. It's 4" too wide to even begin to fit into the engine compartment on the excursion.
I'm just going to have to figure out how to fool all the sensors so I can run a waste gated turbo, and man is this going to suck if it automatically de-rates the power to limp mode- if it even starts.

Any suggestions?

clam
2000 Excursion Promethius :evil:
Cummins 24 valve common rail, VGT
Allison 5 speed auto
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-19-2011, 12:01 AM
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This engine looks very similar to the 5.9 in my t3 kenworth. Im not sure what you are trying to put this into, but like the others said i *think* it is all integrated. I just put a turbo on mine today because the electronic vgt was all messed up and threw the check engine light randomly. Seems like you could be better off by selling this and getting a motor that more closely matches what you need.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 06:17 PM
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Keeping in mind that I've installed what appears to be the exact same package as the OP- My CM-850 Freightliner ECU is completely uncooperative when it comes to ANY mods from the engineered configuration based on the engine serial number.

As of yesterday, I've given up on my new waste-gated turbo and I'm reinstalling the VGT and probably the EGR system as well. Cummins flat out will NOT provide me with a non-VGT program and consequently I constantly throw VGT and EGR codes and am in a perpetual state of derate- I can't pull a 2 mile 6% hill above 45mph. I'm into this engine swap way too deep to back out and switch to a dodge now, so I'm just going to have to stuff all that crap under my hood so I'll have enough power to tow my 30' overloaded trailer.

Since my original post saying it's impossible to convert this engine to a Dodge, I've come to the conclusion that it MIGHT actually be possible. The reason mine would not start was because my injectors were leaking, and I ended up putting in a Freightliner CM850 ECU and it's harness to solve the problem- which didn't help. So now I have new injectors too. It runs and I've driven it 250 miles and I'm VERY happy with Allison (except for the 2-1 down shift wanting to rip out the rearend) which I have regulated via the analog TCM input instead of the J-1939 for the moment. I've built the J-1939 back bone with all the proper Deutsch fittings from Ladd in Ohio, including the receptacle for running a scan tool as would be found in a Semi (took 3 tries to get the right one). OBDII- forget it on the Freightliner ECU, and forget using a Smarty because it will NOT work.

The area of concern for converting the freightliner configuration wiring to a dodge lies in the locations of the crank and cam sensors. If they are different than the freightliner version it may not run. I was absolutely certain of that in my earlier post, but I'm humbly retracting that dogma. At this point, I think it MIGHT work provided you do some other mods. I can't swear to that at this point though.

Swapping front covers might take considerable effort too- the tone wheel is different and I think the crankshaft outside diameter for the balancer is different as well as the Freightliner crank has 6 end bolts vs the dodge has 4. If they are the same, you might be able to change the whole thing over to dodge, but if you do, you'll have no way to control the Allison tranny as far as I know. If the seal size is different, you're in for welding and machining with boring mill accuracy.

The freightliner CM850 ECU that I bought has SAE J1939 multiplexing capability, but I'm not sure if the dodge (I think it's a CM849) ECU can do that.

All I really have to do to make the entire engineered package fit in my 2000 excursion is to modify the outlet fitting that attaches to the turbo (it hits the AC box), modify the down pipe to the much smaller turbo outlet on the VGT, then I have to come up with some creative genius method of installing the damned EGR intake manifold and building a new mounting bracket for the power steering again.

I'm going to try to run this thing with the EGR piping off, but my bet is that I'm going to go right into derate mode again by doing so.

In the end, I think mrod67 is offering some sound wisdom- if you don't want to run a bone stock freightliner Cummins set up, sell it and go with a dodge version. I certainly wish I had.

clam
2000 Excursion Promethius :evil:
Cummins 24 valve common rail, VGT
Allison 5 speed auto
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-20-2011, 10:23 PM
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I ended up with the EGR cooler pipe removed, the EGR intake removed, but I had to reinstall the EGR valve and the stock VGT and exhaust manifold for it to run right. I put a flat disc over the EGR outlet and reinstalled the clamp. What a PITA. Without the VGT, I couldn't get more than about 150 hp. I only get one code now- something about EGR delta pressure differential- EGR valve will remain closed. As long as it doesn't derate the power, I'm fine with that.

clam
2000 Excursion Promethius :evil:
Cummins 24 valve common rail, VGT
Allison 5 speed auto
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