3406B/C Combo Build - TheDieselGarage.com
Thread Details Posted by Fordworth, this thread has received 10 replies and been viewed 420 times.

 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Fordworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Keene, TX
Posts: 8
Points: 529
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
3406B/C Combo Build

I am in the process of building sort of a FrankenCAT. I'm using a 4MG B model block and pump with a wide journal crank and rods. I have some questions about piston and nozzle selection. I was planning to follow Ynot's 625 C model formula. I am a little confused, however, since in the parts list it says that the pistons should be 14.5 compression ratio but when I talked to CAT the parts guy broke down the OR3783 cylinder packs and gave me the piston number of 7E-8656 which is a 15.6 CR. Maybe I missed something and transposed a number when talking to him or misunderstood the original parts list posted by Ynot. If anyone can clarify I would appteciate it. As far as nozzles go, will the OR8785s work with my pump? I did some reading that suggested that those nozzles pop at a higher pressure than the B pump operates at. If not are there nozzles that will work well with both my pump and those pistons or do I need to modify the pump?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

1981 KW W900A, 3406A, 15 Speed
1986 KW W900B
1975 Ford F250 4x4, 12 Valve Cummins, ZF5, NP205, D60HP, Sterling 10.5

Last edited by Fordworth; 04-16-2017 at 05:55 PM.
Fordworth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Fordworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Keene, TX
Posts: 8
Points: 529
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Are all the CAT gurus gone?

1981 KW W900A, 3406A, 15 Speed
1986 KW W900B
1975 Ford F250 4x4, 12 Valve Cummins, ZF5, NP205, D60HP, Sterling 10.5
Fordworth is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 04:24 AM
Senior Member
 
SmokinCAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hillsboro OH/ Adrian MI
Posts: 2,824
Points: 105,751
Thanks: 114
Thanked 625 Times in 500 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordworth View Post
I am in the process of building sort of a FrankenCAT. I'm using a 4MG B model block and pump with a wide journal crank and rods. I have some questions about piston and nozzle selection. I was planning to follow Ynot's 625 C model formula. I am a little confused, however, since in the parts list it says that the pistons should be 14.5 compression ratio but when I talked to CAT the parts guy broke down the OR3783 cylinder packs and gave me the piston number of 7E-8656 which is a 15.6 CR. Maybe I missed something and transposed a number when talking to him or misunderstood the original parts list posted by Ynot. If anyone can clarify I would appteciate it. As far as nozzles go, will the OR8785s work with my pump? I did some reading that suggested that those nozzles pop at a higher pressure than the B pump operates at. If not are there nozzles that will work well with both my pump and those pistons or do I need to modify the pump?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
The cylinder pack you need is a 10R1439, this is a 14.6:1 two piece steel crown piston. The matching nozzle for this is an 0R8789 which pops close to 3500psi and would cause excessive wear in your B pump.

The only way to get that pressure is to swap to a C model pump, but in an ideal situation it would be a full pump build to get the right timing spec on the pump cam to match the lower compression.

If you buy 0R8789s you can send them to Diesel Controls in ohio and have the pop pressure lowered to better match your B model pump, or you can go with 0R3421s and hope you hit your pump timing spot on to not have them trailing smoke.
Cat Attack and floodrod359 like this.

Cody.

79 KW W900A 3406B, Garrett GT55 turbo, RTO12513,
4.11 SQHP rockwells

79 KW K100C 400BC1, Holset HT4B hybrid, custom
injectors, RTO12513, 4.33 eaton DS380s

00 Freightliner Classic XL C15
SmokinCAT is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to SmokinCAT For this addition to TDG:
Fordworth (04-21-2017)
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Fordworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Keene, TX
Posts: 8
Points: 529
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you for the reply. Of course in my simple mind it brings up more questions. Apparently the Ynot parts list is not appropriate for my application. I like the idea of funning steel crown pistons, but I've been told by a couple different CAT mechanics that the only way to run them in a C is to build ut to 8PN specs with OR9424 cyl packs, OR8290 nozzles, and an OR 4886 head and that running a standard head with two piece pistons can lead to valve clearance issues.
Do you happen to have the piston numbers for the ones in the 10R1439 packs?
Also, the nozzles I have now are OR3432. Are they good for anything other than paperweights?
Sorry for all the questions but I've been getting a little overwhelmed by all the information I've been getting from interwebs reading and live conversations as well.

1981 KW W900A, 3406A, 15 Speed
1986 KW W900B
1975 Ford F250 4x4, 12 Valve Cummins, ZF5, NP205, D60HP, Sterling 10.5
Fordworth is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:47 AM
w9l
Junior Member
 
w9l's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest Mo.
Posts: 473
Points: 38,849
Thanks: 229
Thanked 203 Times in 161 Posts
Garage
Just gonna throw this in- Do yourself a favor, unless you are gonna send your nozzles off to someone competent to thoroughly test examine and adjust them, BUY NEW -NOT REMAN Nozzles. They will start with a prefix other than OR. Example, iirc, 7W-7031 is same as OR-8785. Even at that I would imagine the pros like Cody is recommending would much rather deal with new. I , as well as some others, have had really poor luck with Reman sticks.
Cat Attack likes this.

Just me
w9l is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to w9l For this addition to TDG:
Fordworth (04-21-2017)
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 09:40 AM
Senior Member
 
SmokinCAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hillsboro OH/ Adrian MI
Posts: 2,824
Points: 105,751
Thanks: 114
Thanked 625 Times in 500 Posts
I will say this now, you can either take the info I give you and use it or just forget I posted it.

Why are you under the impression that a steel top piston can't be used unless it came from an 8pn?

The 3406C generators that run them are not that different from truck engines, these engines are where you find the highest output as well as the pump cams that aren't designed for emissions.
Cat Attack and floodrod359 like this.
SmokinCAT is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Fordworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Keene, TX
Posts: 8
Points: 529
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinCAT View Post
I will say this now, you can either take the info I give you and use it or just forget I posted it.

Why are you under the impression that a steel top piston can't be used unless it came from an 8pn? .
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to insult you. I had no idea what type of application those were from. I'm just going off what I've been told by a couple of mechanics (who deal mostly with truck engines) and also from reading on this site where some folks said they tried steel tops and didn't like them. That said, I just reread some of your old posts and noticed that you mentioned the 8789 nozzles and that they have a matching steel top three years ago. I just didn't see a piston number with it.
Again, I'm just a little overwhelmed by all the different formulas and part numbers I've come across. I appreciate your help.

1981 KW W900A, 3406A, 15 Speed
1986 KW W900B
1975 Ford F250 4x4, 12 Valve Cummins, ZF5, NP205, D60HP, Sterling 10.5
Fordworth is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:15 PM
Junior Member
 
Cat Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 161
Points: 21,586
Thanks: 71
Thanked 45 Times in 39 Posts
Garage
125-8869 is the crown # for the 14.6:1 steel crown...takes the same skirt as 8pn steel top but some of the rings are different. Theyre the only way to go for building reliability and the most power.

Larry
Cat Attack is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Cat Attack For this addition to TDG:
Fordworth (04-21-2017)
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Fordworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Keene, TX
Posts: 8
Points: 529
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Attack View Post
125-8869 is the crown # for the 14.6:1 steel crown...takes the same skirt as 8pn steel top but some of the rings are different. Theyre the only way to go for building reliability and the most power.
Thank you much.
Any idea if 100-3851 double oilers are appropriate for the application. They are what was in the engine that is donating the crankshaft and use 3/8 bolts so I wouldn't need to drill and tap the block if they're ok to use.

1981 KW W900A, 3406A, 15 Speed
1986 KW W900B
1975 Ford F250 4x4, 12 Valve Cummins, ZF5, NP205, D60HP, Sterling 10.5
Fordworth is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 05:18 AM
Junior Member
 
Cat Attack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 161
Points: 21,586
Thanks: 71
Thanked 45 Times in 39 Posts
Garage
166-3650 is the double piston cooler nozzle you need that uses the 3/8"s bolt. Also need the higher pressure oil pump releif valve spring retainer as well.

Larry
Cat Attack is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Cat Attack For this addition to TDG:
Fordworth (04-23-2017)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TheDieselGarage.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3406b build nenzi71 Introductions 2 03-17-2014 08:39 PM
Best Combo RLSmith 2003-2007 6.0 Tuner Forum 5 04-07-2011 02:13 AM
NEW: 3 in 1 Combo Gauge Big Stroker Supporting Vendors Forum 15 01-05-2010 10:32 PM
best combo martinrj 1994-2003 7.3L Chips & Tuners Forum 5 12-04-2007 04:21 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome