dt466 help - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-19-2009, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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dt466 help

Alright, just looking for some possible advice on what could be wrong with my truck, 97 International 4900 with 230hp DT466e, 175,000 miles. Every once in a while, the engine seems to be running fine until you shut it off, and then it doesnít want to start again. Doesnít matter if it sits for 10 minutes or overnight it just doesnít want to start. Eventually if you try starting it, turn the key off, crank it over again, turn the key off, crank again and repeat it will usually start eventually, although on three occasions it wouldnít start at all and it was towed to the dealership. First time the dealership thought it was fuel related and put in a new fuel filter and it started up, the next two times at a different dealership they figured an electrical problem, and went through all the wires, cleaned up some corrosion and it started fine, but the problem still hasnít been fixed. Other times the truck starts perfectly fine, making it hard to diagnose the problem. I have all the paperwork from the dealer if you need specifics on exactly what they did/checked.

The truck has some blow-by and does use some oil. Sometimes when you start it up cold, it will puff a ton of white smoke until it warms up and then itíll clear up. Other times you start it up and thereís no noticeable smoke. Occasionally when the engine is idling youíll hear it miss once, but this doesnít happen very often.

I had an oil analysis done a while ago and everything there was fine, and it seems to have plenty of power. Anyone with any ideas on where to start? I hope an overhaul isnít necessary, but the no-start problem is driving me crazy.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2009, 01:26 AM
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I have an idea. Sounds similar to what my truck was doing, except mine was less intermittent, and more every f*in time. I hope John G gets on this one, because he fixed mine in a hurry, and for free! (I should have mailed him a donut or something). My truck didn't shoot any white smoke (air), so I am probably way off, but hey. Check your terminals at your battery. Get some sandpaper or a wire brush and make them bare metal. Mine had the SLIGHTEST bit of corrosion on them. (I usually take pretty good care of my equip too, so they truly werent that bad!) My truck would start ok cold at first, but not hot. Then it got to it wouldn't start at all. Ever. The ECM is apparently retarded and yada yada, just try that. Will it start with ether?
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2009, 01:42 AM
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starting problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoh View Post
Alright, just looking for some possible advice on what could be wrong with my truck, 97 International 4900 with 230hp DT466e, 175,000 miles. Every once in a while, the engine seems to be running fine until you shut it off, and then it doesnít want to start again. Doesnít matter if it sits for 10 minutes or overnight it just doesnít want to start. Eventually if you try starting it, turn the key off, crank it over again, turn the key off, crank again and repeat it will usually start eventually, although on three occasions it wouldnít start at all and it was towed to the dealership. First time the dealership thought it was fuel related and put in a new fuel filter and it started up, the next two times at a different dealership they figured an electrical problem, and went through all the wires, cleaned up some corrosion and it started fine, but the problem still hasnít been fixed. Other times the truck starts perfectly fine, making it hard to diagnose the problem. I have all the paperwork from the dealer if you need specifics on exactly what they did/checked.

The truck has some blow-by and does use some oil. Sometimes when you start it up cold, it will puff a ton of white smoke until it warms up and then itíll clear up. Other times you start it up and thereís no noticeable smoke. Occasionally when the engine is idling youíll hear it miss once, but this doesnít happen very often.

I had an oil analysis done a while ago and everything there was fine, and it seems to have plenty of power. Anyone with any ideas on where to start? I hope an overhaul isnít necessary, but the no-start problem is driving me crazy.
look at the fuel shut off on the injectoin pump see if the arm is moving if you can see if not test the wires on the back to se if the fuel shut of is getting 12 volt power

Last edited by dan the cls man; 03-20-2009 at 01:45 AM.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2009, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
I have an idea. Sounds similar to what my truck was doing, except mine was less intermittent, and more every f*in time. I hope John G gets on this one
My thought too, so I stayed out of this one . Nevr and a couple others do good work on these too...
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-21-2009, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
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Appreciate the thoughts so far, I will check out the battery terminals, sure would be nice if something that simple would fix it for me. I've never tried starting with ether. I'll check the wires for the fuel shut-off too. Lately though it has been starting fine, which just makes it that much harder to diagnose. I'm sure though that soon enough it'll start acting up again. . .it always does eventually.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-21-2009, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoh View Post
Appreciate the thoughts so far, I will check out the battery terminals, sure would be nice if something that simple would fix it for me. I've never tried starting with ether. I'll check the wires for the fuel shut-off too. Lately though it has been starting fine, which just makes it that much harder to diagnose. I'm sure though that soon enough it'll start acting up again. . .it always does eventually.

Yes, that's the general rule, something will act up eventually! And you wouldn't be able to guess my glee when it was something so stupid as a tiny bit of corrosion. I live in Michigan for christ's sake, I guess I need to work on rerouting my batteries to my CAB! Good luck!
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-21-2009, 12:55 PM
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Thanks for the kind words guys.... Now I've got a high bar to meet.

If it starts good cold and this is ONLY a problem with a hot or warm engine, I'd lean towards a bad cam sensor or an ICP problem.

Does the tach indicate engine RPM while you crank it, or does it stay around "0"? If it shows RPM, it's NOT the cam sensor, because that is the ECMs only engine speed input.

It could be fuel pressure, if the regulator on the back of the "rail" is not holding fuel pressure it can make for a hard start. What I don't get is why only hot, but it's "cheap" and quick.

You could have a weak HPOP or injector o-ring leak causing a long time to build ICP (Injection Control Pressure) which is needed to fire the injectors. You NEED a minimum of 650 PSI on any engine to start it, if you get 200-400 PSI of ICP during cranking with the IPR valve unplugged, the HPOP is ok.

Check your fuel color, if it's black or dark brown, you have a leaking injector 0-ring, do 'em all. This WILL cause your symptoms and would account for your oil useage.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-21-2009, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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I replaced the cam sensor last fall, and it doesnt seem to have made a difference. It does indicate rpm while cranking. It doesn't seem to make a difference whether or not the engine is warm or cold, it seems completely random. I'll check the fuel as well, although I've never noticed it to be brown/black before. Below is what's on the paperwork from the dealer about what they checked:

Went out to yard with eztech. Checked primer pump. It was stiff. Engine turned over, had oil pressure and icp. Put the laptop on, had ecm/battery codes. Wiggled the battery cables. Started up. Took off all cables to look for a bad connection. Couldn’t find anything. Pull and drag tests on wires/cables. Nothing. Put everything back together. Started up no problem.

After I got it back from the dealer that time, I took it home and parked it. About 4 hours later I tried starting and it wouldn't go. So back to the dealer it went and they did the following:

Check for codes. Got inactive codes for - #615, #224, #323 (coolant). Erase codes & run diagnostics with key on. Still has inactive codes for keep alive memory fault & #543 – ecm/idm com. Fault. Go through diagnostic check list. Remove harness from idm & found minor corrosion on pins #2 & #14. Clean up pins and connector. Apply dielectric grease to pins and reconnect idm. Still getting same codes. Tested relays with breakout tester - good. Check harness connector at firewall for ecm. Clean up pins and connector. Found ground wires at firewall corroded & worn from rubbing. Repair ground wires and clean up area around the ground post. Do pull test on all wires. Use breakout box to test circuits. Check and clean up deutch connector. Run diagnostics again and recheck codes. No new codes at this time. Leave truck overnight and recheck again in the morning.

After this, the truck ran fine for maybe a week or two and the no start problem started happening again. Thanks again for all the help.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-26-2009, 12:27 AM
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When the engine is in a no start condition while you are cranking it does the yellow engine warning light come on?



Tim
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-27-2009, 08:19 AM
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John G.,

I am not sure if you mention this or not before in the forum did the DTE verison did have a checkvalve somewhere in back of the head ?

The reason why I ask due IIRC some of the DTE verison did have some issue with check valve I know I ran into few like that in France at least 3 so far.

One did have strainer got clogged up on the supply side the other two have combation of supply and return line messed up I found very fine metal shaving show up with white rag.

Merci,Marc
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