ISX lovers click HERE* [Archive] - TheDieselGarage.com

: ISX lovers click HERE*


justdoug
02-27-2011, 09:53 PM
Thought some folks might appreciate these pics of my bud's '06 ISX that has just been de-EGRd by Jerry Martin Repair in Ephrata PA. His initial response is AWESOME! (duh). I'll let you all know how the mileage is after a few weeks of truckin'. He did say the fan runs WAY less than before. That is a PDI manifold and turbo,ceramic coated along with the exhaust piping.All EGR is removed and ECM reflashed . Not too shabby for a red motor,eh?

378Pete
02-28-2011, 12:04 AM
What's somethin like that cost?

Might leave me with a viable option a couple few years from now.

OTT
02-28-2011, 02:08 AM
with new turbo it is around 8-9 thousand rang for the labor and the pdi parts. you can do a delete and leave the stoke turbo on for 2150 tuning and 425 for intake manifold.

Lmackattack
02-28-2011, 02:18 AM
Very intresting. If it was my truck I would be looking into that stuff as well. The thing that gets me is that emissions can be dodged fairly easy. Most states dont check and when you get a notice you just say the truck is not plated or in the shop. I did it for years with my hotrods. just dont go into CA! I think MPG will be the big gains and looks like it was simplified things on the whole engine.

Keep us posted

justdoug
02-28-2011, 09:33 AM
OTT nailed it-8K for the whole deal including the ceramic coating.If mileage is there should payback in 'bout 2yrs

378Pete
02-28-2011, 02:41 PM
What's this guy have for spex on his truck? What's he do with it?

Jfaulkner
02-28-2011, 02:52 PM
*waiting* *waiting* *waiting*

I'm gonna be disappointed if someone doesn't ask "But, what about the warranty?" (I realize an '06 is most likely out of warranty) I know there's a nervous ninny out there just itching to ask.

Even if the fuel mileage doesn't improve much (I can't imagine it wouldn't) just not having parts fail like VGT, EGR valves/coolers would pay back the 8k quick enough to justify doing it.

I almost want to buy a brand new truck just so I can have PDI *fix* it and drive it back to the dealer to show them. All I had done to my MXS Cat was a stage 1 flash and the salesman doesn't believe me it doesn't smoke or get hot. I would love to see his head pop off when you drive in with a 2012 ISX with all the junk stripped off with 700hp. They spend too much time with those dealer mechanics better known as "parts changers" who insist if Cat/Cummins don't do it, it can't be done!

Can't wait to hear your buddy's end results after the fun factor goes away.:rock

josh G
02-28-2011, 04:54 PM
How is the Jake since the upgrade? It looks like a clean install love the chrome valve cover. BTW what is that on the valve cover paint? Or a coating?

bionic rooster
03-01-2011, 12:34 AM
A good friend of mine just had his done(picked it up sat) and claims lowend power increased greatly. No loss of Jake power. He is a conservative driver and monitors mpg's closely. I will get his mpg's in a couple days and post them along with the price tag. I believe he paid around $7500. I'll get some accurate info to share

OTT
03-01-2011, 01:40 AM
OTT nailed it-8K for the whole deal including the ceramic coating.If mileage is there should payback in 'bout 2yrs
i hope i did I sell the damn stuff:)

BSouth
03-01-2011, 03:24 PM
That looks nice. How much does it cost to get the turbo coated?

justdoug
03-01-2011, 07:18 PM
wow,i just figured out how to do this from my phone(i`m such a technoloser,i know) now i won`t have to wait til the weekend.Anyway,this motor is in an 06 379,309WB,18speed trans,3.36 rears-dude was pulling a reefer when he ordered the truck,now pulls 3axle RGN-mostly between PA and TX. MPGs mpg not the primary concern,power and heat reduction were and that was accomplished-any mpgs will be bonus. 500K on truck so no warrenty,but most of his warrenty issues were EGR related anyway.

bionic rooster
03-02-2011, 01:54 AM
Is that matt's truck?

Jfaulkner
03-02-2011, 02:03 AM
wow,i just figured out how to do this from my phone(i`m such a technoloser,i know) now i won`t have to wait til the weekend.

What kind of phone?

pichu2
03-02-2011, 02:49 AM
:damnithmm!!! in the first photo this looked like 1/2 project
because i dont see a elbow of 7 1/2", do you know if those guys moved the degree of camshaft injectors (uhhh big secret) or if they changed another camshaft ?this is something interesting:rock

LOG HAULER
03-03-2011, 06:48 PM
Thought some folks might appreciate these pics of my bud's '06 ISX that has just been de-EGRd by Jerry Martin Repair in Ephrata PA. His initial response is AWESOME! (duh). I'll let you all know how the mileage is after a few weeks of truckin'. He did say the fan runs WAY less than before. That is a PDI manifold and turbo,ceramic coated along with the exhaust piping.All EGR is removed and ECM reflashed . Not too shabby for a red motor,eh?

Just curios how much does it cost to get one de-ergrd?

Jfaulkner
03-03-2011, 10:18 PM
Just curios how much does it cost to get one de-ergrd?

~$8k to do the complete delete according to OTT

Burninoil
03-04-2011, 03:58 AM
ahh man you took away the very reason I love this engine. the egr and vgt stuff is awsome from my point of view... it pays the bills:sly all kidding aside I love it sorta:happydance

this is the correct way to delete the egr... not just unplugging the sensor or the motor for the egr (which actually does nothing).

This delete gets rid of the crappy 870 erg cooler which cracks and creates a boost leak. heck it will pay for it self pretty quick if you count all the repairs that would need to be done in 1-2 years. OTT you are letting these guys take food out of my mouth:mafia1:

Art387
03-04-2011, 04:21 AM
Unplugging EGR motor does nothing? What do you mean?

Burninoil
03-04-2011, 04:38 AM
It may cause the MPG to go up but only by taking away some of your fuel. the ecm still knows it has an egr valve and it knows there is a problem. by reflashing the ecm and blocking everything off problem solved.

I have seen engines where the driver said he was getting better fuel econ and power with the egr valve unplugged but the egr cooler was blown out at the flange (boost leak) so we are back at what the main problem is in many cases a big boost leak that is hard to see and hard to hear.

so yes it may let you run cooler and get better fuel economy but only because it is cutting you back.

now if you can plug off the egr inlet to the intake and fool the ecm into thinking the egr valve is still working (reflash ecm) all problems solved.

OTT
03-04-2011, 01:25 PM
ahh man you took away the very reason I love this engine. the egr and vgt stuff is awsome from my point of view... it pays the bills:sly all kidding aside I love it sorta:happydance

this is the correct way to delete the egr... not just unplugging the sensor or the motor for the egr (which actually does nothing).

This delete gets rid of the crappy 870 erg cooler which cracks and creates a boost leak. heck it will pay for it self pretty quick if you count all the repairs that would need to be done in 1-2 years. OTT you are letting these guys take food out of my mouth:mafia1:

not here to make money just to help people. I have enough irons in the fire to pay the bills. The big thing is you do not need to replace your turbo to do a delete. 2150 just for the tuning and that will get you down the road. Of course I will say do a intake manifold also they do help!

Art387
03-04-2011, 02:05 PM
When EGR Valve is stuck closed and EGR mixer on the intake side is taken care of (plugged with a block off plate) - how is a boost leak happening on a CM870 ??

justdoug
03-04-2011, 02:26 PM
can`t say whose truck it is,but sure is clean and frame is a pretty blue,don`t ya think?? (winkwink)

bionic rooster
03-04-2011, 08:55 PM
I understand- I past him on 81 the other day.

Burninoil
03-05-2011, 01:11 AM
When EGR Valve is stuck closed and EGR mixer on the intake side is taken care of (plugged with a block off plate) - how is a boost leak happening on a CM870 ??

as long as the inlet to the mixer is blocked off and you know the egr valve is closed no boost or exhaust leaks will happen. than you can get the ecm reflashed and you are golden.

Burninoil
03-05-2011, 01:16 AM
OTT is it a different calibration for engines using the vgt vs. engines that have the non vgt turbo installed.

OTT
03-05-2011, 02:30 PM
^ yes it is, you have to remember that the ecm is running the turbos on the egr engines. that is how the put back pressure on the engine so it will force the exhaust to go threw the cooler and into the intake. So if you want a pdi turbo there is extra tuning. just for egr delete it is 2150. If you want a pdi turbo it is a extra I think 1200 in tuning I cant remember. But then you will need to buy exhaust manifold turbo install kit which comes with all the stuff to plug and remove egr cooler and of course the turbo. They run good with the turbo and egr delete.

Art387
03-05-2011, 04:35 PM
All this PDI "tuning" is pure bull$-hit. When ECM senses EGR not working it stops operating it. As long as the valve is closed tight whole EGR system is eliminated.

OTT
03-05-2011, 05:23 PM
really do you get a cel? with pdi tuning there is no cel and you will pick up more mpg. I have trucks with it done and it does work.

Art387
03-05-2011, 06:12 PM
really do you get a cel? with pdi tuning there is no cel and you will pick up more mpg. I have trucks with it done and it does work.

Spending this kinda money to get rid of something as unipmortant as Check Engine Light is smart only when you are stupid :roflol:

OTT
03-05-2011, 10:59 PM
1.5 mpg more is stupid wow. You must think like the tree hugers 5.0 mpg is better then 7.0 mpg

379Longhood
03-05-2011, 11:07 PM
Ok you kids fight nice or next thing you know this thread will be locked:bdh

OTT
03-05-2011, 11:54 PM
well he started it!

Art387
03-06-2011, 12:39 AM
I didn't start anything as yet :)
But we can talk about that "wonderful" programming which turns the engine up to 680hp when improving mpg from 5 to 7 in the same time :roflol:

OTT
03-06-2011, 03:11 AM
the best I have boosted the mpg is 1.5mpg. The guy was all ways getting 5.1 now he is getting 6.6. That pays for its self in no time!

pichu2
03-06-2011, 04:39 AM
the best I have boosted the mpg is 1.5mpg. The guy was all ways getting 5.1 now he is getting 6.6. That pays for its self in no time!
:damniti know that the egr and dpf dont make good mpg:damnit but for me it makes me waste alot of money to buy that kit, i rather buy a sig 565 straight they cost $8,000 right know and some junkyards n you put a small reflash with this you fly too,:rock:popcorn:thumbsup,but OTT is it possible to put a dpf on a egr cummins st cpl8520, and if there is a room to the ecm to put in the system,:damnit:shrugs i ask you that question because i have 22 months of life in the port in california( ask jared):wave:shrugs

Art387
03-06-2011, 05:33 AM
the best I have boosted the mpg is 1.5mpg. The guy was all ways getting 5.1 now he is getting 6.6. That pays for its self in no time!

Most mpg problems with CM870 are coming from leaky/sticky EGR Valve, thats it. All that needs to be done is to clean it and then close it for good.

It's free however takes some mental effort to figure it out - apparently not everyone is up to the task :poke

midnitetrucker7
03-06-2011, 05:52 AM
The mileage increase and no more egr issues alone would make it worth doing. We run 9 isx's engines and all this garbage emission junk they've added to them has ruined one of cummins better engine in my opinion. Our first ones were great engines, got good mileage and had good power. The local peterbilt begged and pleaded for almost two years to get us to try one, we were.having a ton of problems with the bridge cats at the time so we finally agreed to try two of them. With in a year the whole fleet was changed over to them. Now we got six of them with all the emission junk and there exactly that junk. One of them didn't even make it home the 200 miles bobtail and was having egr troubles. Not a single one of the newer ones made it 40,000 miles before going back into the shop. Unfortunately these are pac lease trucks so we cant do anything to them. I just feel PDI is pricey on there tunes. I think more people would use them if not for the price. I know a couple people running there ecms on cats and while the difference in the engine was phenomenal one of them had some issues with ecm and I didn't feel they stood behind there product very well. My personal truck is cat powered and I've been contemplating one of there ecms for a while now but before I do I'm researching some other options such as converting it to a different engine management system all together, something that I have complete control over and can tune myself with a laptop.

Art387
03-06-2011, 06:06 AM
You probably talking about engines with DPF - thats CM871 and whole different story. It's probably worth spending all the money and PDI tunes come to rescue as newer Cummins ECM cannot be fooled as easily as before 2007.

What I'm saying is there are few generations of ISX and they are way different which is something many people don't seem to understand.

OTT
03-06-2011, 01:56 PM
You probably talking about engines with DPF - thats CM871 and whole different story. It's probably worth spending all the money and PDI tunes come to rescue as newer Cummins ECM cannot be fooled as easily as before 2007.

What I'm saying is there are few generations of ISX and they are way different which is something many people don't seem to understand.

i understand but look at it from my stand point. I have 25 cm870 if I go threw and unplug the egr it will throw a cel. With 25 different drivers that dont know jack about engines they will cover up the cel and never pay attention to what there truck is doing. I think it is worth it because you can have something else going wrong and you wont know about it. I will agree that the tunes are high but who else is doing what pdi is doing on egr and dpf deletes? pichu2 I know they make retrofit kits but I will have your answer monday.

Art387
03-06-2011, 03:44 PM
i understand but look at it from my stand point. I have 25 cm870 if I go threw and unplug the egr it will throw a cel. With 25 different drivers that dont know jack about engines they will cover up the cel and never pay attention to what there truck is doing. I think it is worth it because you can have something else going wrong and you wont know about it. I will agree that the tunes are high but who else is doing what pdi is doing on egr and dpf deletes? pichu2 I know they make retrofit kits but I will have your answer monday.

I agree, it's whole different game when you have 25 trucks and drivers who don't really care. I'm posting from my one and only truck and have Road Relay 4 here which shows me fault codes plus connecting Insite when driving to se whats going on, just finished replacing Air Control Valve at some dealer parking lot last night. I could do that only because of my computers and seeing problems with turbocharger acting strangely. Now monitoring another sensor going bad at times (exhaust gas pressure)

Why should I spend $2150 on some tuning? ISX is the easiest motor to diagnose because of Insite being made public, the only reason people have so many problems with them engines is they are lazy, pull in those miserable shops and ask them greedy owners "rape me again"

OTT
03-06-2011, 07:29 PM
with the tuning you are also advancing the timing.

Art387
03-06-2011, 07:40 PM
with the tuning you are also advancing the timing.

And blow your engine

OTT
03-06-2011, 11:13 PM
they make engines meet emissions with timing. Your timing is set neg for emissions so why keep it that way?

Jfaulkner
03-07-2011, 02:18 PM
they make engines meet emissions with timing. Your timing is set neg for emissions so why keep it that way?

He's never going to get it. NONE of the engine mfg's are programming these engines with power or fuel economy in mind, It's all done to make the EPA happy.

Re-tarded timing = Heat, poor performance, lower MPG's but the NOX is lower. Which makes the tree huggers happy by burning more fuel!:damnit

Advanced timing = Lower EGT's, and higher MPG's BUT you get higher cyl pressure and higher NOX levels.
So your truck runs WAY better but you probably don't want to lug it because of higher pressures. But your wallet will thank you and power gains are amazing.:happydance

All the engine MFG's know how to make power and better fuel mileage, they're just not allowed to do it. :mafia1:

Art387
03-07-2011, 03:00 PM
they make engines meet emissions with timing. Your timing is set neg for emissions so why keep it that way?

Because I got 565 hp ISX from factory and it is already sick powerful. I'm not your kinda driver nor operation where all you expect is to get back home for a weekend. I'm expecting this motor to last forever because I got better ideas for spending money than buying next truck or engine and would be ashamed to call my wife and tell her "hon, I blew the engine because of that PDI tune"

You guys are just a kids who have no idea about real life :sleep

Jfaulkner
03-07-2011, 03:12 PM
Because I got 565 hp ISX from factory and it is already sick powerful. I'm not your kinda driver nor operation where all you expect is to get back home for a weekend. I'm expecting this motor to last forever because I got better ideas for spending money than buying next truck or engine and would be ashamed to call my wife and tell her "hon, I blew the engine because of that PDI tune"

You guys are just a kids who have no idea about real life :sleep

See OTT told ya. He's one of those guys that honestly believes the OEM is the absolute best you can get. He must think that a stage 1 tune is 400hp over stock with huge fuel increases, super high EGT's and clouds of smoke. I for one would hate for facts to get in the way of his opinion, so carry on ART387.:roflol:

Nevermind the fact that everyone that has it done has increases in fuel economy, lower temps (both water and EGT) and increased reliability (no more EGR failures) He knows best, probably because the parts changer....woops I mean master mechanic at the dealer told him so.

Art387
03-07-2011, 03:16 PM
So, how many miles you have had driven so far with that "supertune" ?
Tell me about it

ynot
03-08-2011, 12:13 AM
Not too in the know about aftermarket company tunes, but there are a few guys on here than have done hundreds of tunes on all kinds of trucks. If they all drove 10 miles that's alot of history. As they have actually driven hundreds of thousands the anecdotal evidence there is indisputable.

IMOO, proper tuning, like proper governor settings minus finer and more dramatic adjustability, is the whole runnability factor of the motor. Factory tunes are made for a variety of reasons. The first being emissions. Emission timing shortens the life of the engine dramatically, by burst cylinder pressures instead of duration burning. This is why all trucks in ten years will have Piezo injectors instead of Lucas type plunger injectors.

The second is for longevity (the first stage of tuning is for government compromise). This is all done in lieu of compromising with the first part which is burst calibrations. We know that that is an engine killer rite off so those are the two big compromises. Next is mileage and power as a set.

If you look at how they are OEM tuned then look at a brain's tuning (like Haney or DDS) and see that they fix just the known and simple probs to start, both long term and short, then do the customer fix, as a byproduct of peak tuning of stoichiometric efficiencies, comes up with a much better tune than OEMS. If they didn't work they wouldn't sell.

Emission tunes are a variable not gospel, hence timing can go up changing the whole ramp, thereby leaving room for fuel maps with safe power games from actually even less fuel sometimes, tho most often more. There are times when correct timing for duration can inject less fuel done by just by changing injector pulse width, then dynamic timing, and it gains power and even boost (by the length of drive push for exhaust pressure, hence spooling the turbo, making more boost, upping the power just with manifold alone not including the efficiency burn stuff, etc).

Long story short, just cause it looks good on the computer doesn't mean it's the best thing in the real world. If that was the case there wouldn't be a market for tuners. There is, and it's huge. Also look at just map upgrades and TSB's. The OEM's are constantly trying to improve on their own stuff just to keep it on the road. Tuning is a never ending world. Entire compainies do nothing but that (Westers, Edge, etc...), and do very well. Others buy tunes from a different company and re-sell them. They al do it cause it works, just like tuning a mechanical never goes backwards either if done right.

OTT
03-08-2011, 12:55 AM
Well the best I can tell you is 1 truck of mine has the egr delete and he is past 600,000 miles. I have him set at a 600 and you dont know power until you have driven this truck. In my mind cummins will never be as good as my cats but the tunes make the cummins a lot better to live with. I might be just a kid but this kid has a truck that will out pull your truck and get better mpg while doing it!

Jfaulkner
03-08-2011, 01:03 AM
So, how many miles you have had driven so far with that "supertune" ?
Tell me about it

5 miles, but it exploded and unfortunately killed 8 people.:wave

A few degrees of added timing to a diesel and you've got Hiroshima huh Art?:roflol:

OTT
03-08-2011, 01:17 AM
5 miles, but it exploded and unfortunately killed 8 people.:wave

A few degrees of added timing to a diesel and you've got Hiroshima huh Art?:roflol:

hahahhaha

Art387
03-08-2011, 01:48 AM
Not too in the know about aftermarket company tunes, but there are a few guys on here than have done hundreds of tunes on all kinds of trucks. If they all drove 10 miles that's alot of history. As they have actually driven hundreds of thousands the anecdotal evidence there is indisputable.
There is no one damn truck with hundreds of thousands miles on the PDI ISX tune because this stuff is simply too new. Trucking has many faces, some people make 30k miles a year when others 200k. That 30k guy will never get his truck to high mileages and he will never learn about long term effects. I'm the other guy - unproven $hi+ would hit me first or second year. Kinda early to my tastes - but I agree, there will be people who pissing daddy' money and don't care about stuff the way I do. Surely, they will go out of business sooner or later but then again - its a long term. Long Term is something all those tuners don't give rat ***** about, thats why there is never any warranty with whatever they do

Art387
03-08-2011, 02:26 AM
IMOO, proper tuning, like proper governor settings minus finer and more dramatic adjustability, is the whole runnability factor of the motor. Factory tunes are made for a variety of reasons. The first being emissions. Emission timing shortens the life of the engine dramatically, by burst cylinder pressures instead of duration burning. This is why all trucks in ten years will have Piezo injectors instead of Lucas type plunger injectors.

The second is for longevity (the first stage of tuning is for government compromise). This is all done in lieu of compromising with the first part which is burst calibrations. We know that that is an engine killer rite off so those are the two big compromises. Next is mileage and power as a set.
Cummins can't really overlook longevity the way the CAT did, stakes are simply too high. What is PDI risking by selling high-power tunes ? When those 680hp engines get some heat and start blowing up at some later time they will reemerge under new name like many others have done already. I'm not saying they will, hope everything will be fine, they grow and get even better at what they do, however thing is if they will - few truckers will pay way more than $2150 for the tunes and its something that only few of them realize now

josh G
03-08-2011, 04:57 AM
Cat and cummins both offer almost the same engine that is in our trucks in higher power levels for other applications such as marine and generator they manage, to keep those engines together so why would you think that a mere 25% increase of power would result in drasticly shortened engine life?

Jfaulkner
03-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Cat and cummins both offer almost the same engine that is in our trucks in higher power levels for other applications such as marine and generator they manage, to keep those engines together so why would you think that a mere 25% increase of power would result in drasticly shortened engine life?

Shhhhh! People like Art won't allow facts to get in the way of their opinions. I think maybe he should stick to taking pictures and leave the computer programming to the guys who have spent hundreds of thousands on testing and dyno time.:roflol:

He sounds exactly like the dealer mechanics. "Why no you most certainly can not uprate your 550 to 625 without changing pistons!!!!" HAHA 75hp on a 15.2L engine REQUIRES piston changes? :roflol:

That's like telling the diesel pickup owners you can't add 5hp without swapping engine parts.

Art if someone who HAS HAD an aftermarket tune for 500k miles and said they had ZERO issues you wouldn't believe them anyway. So why don't you just drive your "sick powerful" truck and leave those of us who don't drink the OEM Kool-Aid alone?:wave

OTT
03-08-2011, 01:03 PM
Cat and cummins both offer almost the same engine that is in our trucks in higher power levels for other applications such as marine and generator they manage, to keep those engines together so why would you think that a mere 25% increase of power would result in drasticly shortened engine life?

thats right these engines are in gen sets and are turning over 800hp and stay running for thousands of hours. If pdi tunes blow trucks up then they should have no customers and no one would want them to work on there trucks. Go out to Saint George look at there lot it is all ways packed. I will tell you what art this is the last time I will respond to one of your post in these thread because you just dont get it. My judgment of this product is because I turn wrenches and drive every week and yes I do use there products. Trust me if there was a problem with there products I would have found it by know I do not pull legal loads, I mostly pull a 13 axle steerable around. You do not need any real miles to start breaking stuff when you gross 250,000 lbs avg.

xxxxxV8Lenny
03-08-2011, 02:36 PM
I've been driving over 1 million kilometres with tuned ECM without any problems, it was only a +120hp program and engine was Volvo D12, driven at 40 tonnes over the mountains to Spain and Portugal. Same company had many other tuned ECMs and we were only drivers. Now I'm an owner operator and I have +340hp tune plus timing advanced about 5 degrees from the pump.

Remember Art, this is nothing new, it has been done for at least 15 years in Europe. And timing has been advanced since the mechanical times even if they were not so retarded from the factory.

Art387
03-08-2011, 04:44 PM
If you look at how they are OEM tuned then look at a brain's tuning (like Haney or DDS) and see that they fix just the known and simple probs to start, both long term and short, then do the customer fix, as a byproduct of peak tuning of stoichiometric efficiencies, comes up with a much better tune than OEMS. If they didn't work they wouldn't sell.
If you know what Turbo3000d is you know that things that don't work sell quite well depending on marketing efforts (read: money dumped into false advertisement) because truckers are funny bunch of people, tell them something will do GOOD for their loved equipment and they will buy anything just to give it a try.

I'm not saying there are scumbags only all around, sure there are talented and honest people as well, heck if that tune was written by Mr.Haney or you I'm sure lot of my questions would be answered already as I can't imagine how would you hide from your own customer what your own product really does - unfortunately it's not the case here as "the only DI dealer in Nebraska" is just a kid pushing "my truck is stronger than yours" c-rap and thats all what he knows "for sure"


Emission tunes are a variable not gospel, hence timing can go up changing the whole ramp, thereby leaving room for fuel maps with safe power games from actually even less fuel sometimes, tho most often more. There are times when correct timing for duration can inject less fuel done by just by changing injector pulse width, then dynamic timing, and it gains power and even boost (by the length of drive push for exhaust pressure, hence spooling the turbo, making more boost, upping the power just with manifold alone not including the efficiency burn stuff, etc).
Maybe Burst burning is what kills the CAT engines? All I ever heard is that NOx on ISX is treated by EGR and ECM times the engine accordingly to conditions including amount of exhaust as well. There are times when EGR is shut and original programming has to deal with it anyway, right? If so, how do you know if timing its retarded then? Who said so?

Look, I'm not claiming to know whats in the code but hey, if PDI is selling stock 565hp tune minus check engine light - you will never know it either. I'm not saying they do, but try question them about it and all you get will be BS like OTT is pushing here (huge power and incredible fuel savings :roflol:).

Lmackattack
03-09-2011, 12:58 AM
With respect to all, I ask that we please keep any jabs out of the discussion.

Thank you and please continue:)

Jfaulkner
03-09-2011, 04:26 PM
With respect to all, I ask that we please keep any jabs out of the discussion.

Thank you and please continue:)

I'm trying to figure out Arts infatuation with OTT. He's got an issue with him for some reason. Funny thing is OTT has been pretty civil considering Art is gunning hard for him.

He's coming off as a grouchy old man with no idea what he's talking about. Until you've owned a tuned truck or driven one all you can do is speculate. Speculation is fine as long as you don't try and pass it off as fact.

xxxxxV8Lenny
03-09-2011, 08:33 PM
Maybe Burst burning is what kills the CAT engines?


No. High exhaust gas temps and slow burning due to retarded timing is what kills Cat engines.(along with low quality castings and big tolerances in manufacturing)

OTT
03-10-2011, 02:33 AM
well I have put as much info in this damn thread as I can. If any one needs info on this tunes from a guy that sells them and also that uses them just send me a pm or just read the thread. Some of the smartest mechanics I know are only 20 so what is wrong with being a kid!

SmokinCAT
03-10-2011, 09:39 AM
well I have put as much info in this damn thread as I can. If any one needs info on this tunes from a guy that sells them and also that uses them just send me a pm or just read the thread. Some of the smartest mechanics I know are only 20 so what is wrong with being a kid!

Nothing wrong with it until you run into someone 2 or 3 times your age that thinks no one young can know as much as some of us do, so then its passes off as BS according to them.

To the OP, I would be interested to see if this will help with the high mileage durability that some of the ISXs seem to lack. Keep us updated.

OTT
03-10-2011, 01:12 PM
Nothing wrong with it until you run into someone 2 or 3 times your age that thinks no one young can know as much as some of us do, so then its passes off as BS according to them.

To the OP, I would be interested to see if this will help with the high mileage durability that some of the ISXs seem to lack. Keep us updated.

well you dont have the exhaust going back into the intake to screw up the liner walls so yes you should get more miles before needing a overhaul.

Jfaulkner
03-10-2011, 01:49 PM
well you dont have the exhaust going back into the intake to screw up the liner walls so yes you should get more miles before needing a overhaul.

LIAR LIAR LIAR!!!!:poke:roflol:

Art387
03-10-2011, 03:16 PM
well you dont have the exhaust going back into the intake to screw up the liner walls so yes you should get more miles before needing a overhaul.


Welding EGR valve shut (on pre-DPF ISX we are talkin about here) does the same thing but will will save you $9000 right off.

Mr. Young Dealer is not going to like it though, those young mechanics know it all and this kinda money means just nothing to them - daddy has a trucking company and they are DEALERS :roflol:

CaterpillarWrench
03-10-2011, 03:41 PM
Welding EGR valve shut (on pre-DPF ISX we are talkin about here) does the same thing but will will save you $9000 right off.

Except for charge flow derate due to no egr delta pressure and no engine brake.And also egr off silent torque derate.You lost some boost didnt you?

Art387
03-10-2011, 03:51 PM
Except for charge flow derate due to no egr delta pressure and no engine brake.And also egr off silent torque derate.You lost some boost didnt you?

No, didn't lost any boost, fuel mileage is no different as well as power/torque seems to be. If there is difference, there is more of it than before but not much, I'm pulling different loads over Rockies, weather vary a lot every time its hard to tell about increases.

The only difference is higher pyrometer readings on hard pulls - that I think comes from eliminating EGR gas from cylinders - hotter burn (and more NOx)

Art387
03-10-2011, 04:07 PM
Except for charge flow derate due to no egr delta pressure and no engine brake.And also egr off silent torque derate.You lost some boost didnt you?

I have read once more what you said. Why do you think I have no engine brake?

CaterpillarWrench
03-10-2011, 04:26 PM
I'm sorry,I didn't make that clear.There is a charge flow derate that takes place in the ecm when it senses no egr delta pressure and no engine brake signal.

xxxxxV8Lenny
03-10-2011, 04:32 PM
No, didn't lost any boost, fuel mileage is no different as well as power/torque seems to be. If there is difference, there is more of it than before but not much, I'm pulling different loads over Rockies, weather vary a lot every time its hard to tell about increases.

The only difference is higher pyrometer readings on hard pulls - that I think comes from eliminating EGR gas from cylinders - hotter burn (and more NOx)

It is retarding timing when the EGR is not working, that's why fuel mileage is not better. Cooler burn = higher EGT , hotter burn = lower EGT.

Art387
03-10-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm sorry,I didn't make that clear.There is a charge flow derate that takes place in the ecm when it senses no egr delta pressure and no engine brake signal.

What kinda of derate are you talking about?

Prohibiting you from driving kinda derate or something more like 2-5 psi less on the Boost gauge ?

From what I understand that heavy derate occurs on newer ISX, those with CM871 ECM and DPF filters, 2002-2006 motors are not "punished" for EGR malfuncions by ECM. However few other problems may exists that result in lower boost/power (but again, its not like 2007ISX where computers have to really defend the DPF filters from almost immediate plugging when things started going bad due bad burning and increased soot levels)

If jake brake operation is involved in all this, then from my experience is more of indication that air control valve or actuator can't deliver turbo actuation, 70% position that is

Art387
03-10-2011, 08:11 PM
It is retarding timing when the EGR is not working, that's why fuel mileage is not better. Cooler burn = higher EGT , hotter burn = lower EGT.

How about this:
EGR flowing into cylinder = cooler burn, less power, less NOx
EGR not being present = hotter burn, more power, more NOx

How do you know about ISX timing being retarded? Or is it just a guess?

OTT
03-10-2011, 09:26 PM
LIAR LIAR LIAR!!!!:poke:roflol:

so you dont think with a egr blocked you wont get any more miles out of the liners? All I can say is take the intake off the head and look in and see how packed it is with black crap. I base my prediction on seeing the intake of these engines. Does any one know what the b-50 life is on the isx? Of coure I wish I could do math like art 2150 will turn into 9000. I like that name mr. young dealer!

justdoug
03-11-2011, 03:50 AM
WOW!....and to think i started all this with just some pretty pictures....

ynot
03-11-2011, 03:51 AM
[QUOTE=Art387;1069130]
Maybe Burst burning is what kills the CAT engines? [QUOTE]

I don't buy into anyones secret squirl crap. Ts'all garbage to me... Burst fueling kills ALL ENGINES. Gas, diesel, big, small, pregnant, lactating, etc... that is why even cars are going to multi point direct injection firing up to seven times per stroke for duration burning, hence the advent of Piezo wafer injectors. ;)

Jfaulkner
03-11-2011, 03:15 PM
so you dont think with a egr blocked you wont get any more miles out of the liners? All I can say is take the intake off the head and look in and see how packed it is with black crap. I base my prediction on seeing the intake of these engines. Does any one know what the b-50 life is on the isx? Of coure I wish I could do math like art 2150 will turn into 9000. I like that name mr. young dealer!

Oh I agree with you totally, I was just trying to beat Art to the punch of calling you a liar. I don't need to pull the intake off an ISX to know EGR is nasty. Seen enough of the black sludge one little motors like the Duramax. Anyone who thinks EGR is a good idea needs to take a garden hose and shove one end in their mouth and the other in their *backside* and see how nice it is to breath "exhaust"!:damnit

Oh and Tony could we get a picture of a "lactating" motor?:roflol: Is that what it's called when they leak oil/water?:happydance

Jfaulkner
03-11-2011, 03:16 PM
WOW!....and to think i started all this with just some pretty pictures....

any updates?

Art387
03-11-2011, 06:53 PM
[QUOTE=Art387;1069130]
Burst fueling kills ALL ENGINES. Gas, diesel, big, small, pregnant, lactating, etc...
I understand that working on late model engines might be frustrating at times, but when you start seeing pregnant cats and lactating acerts - RUN http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/snrmaajt.gif

:)

359kool
03-11-2011, 08:23 PM
but when you start seeing pregnant cats and lactating acerts - RUN


But if it weren't for cummin none of this would happen in the first place, Art.. Think about it.. :poke

justdoug
03-12-2011, 02:57 AM
no,sorry don't have any real updates yet,other than that he really enjoys driving it,fan on WAY less,jake not quite as strong but better than expected,68mph over Sidling on PA 'pike @79K, and 2 weeks and it's still in 1 piece! Has anyone done any injector upgrades on this motor yet? Is there even any made for it?

SmokinCAT
03-12-2011, 11:57 AM
[QUOTE=Art387;1069130]
Maybe Burst burning is what kills the CAT engines? [QUOTE]

I don't buy into anyones secret squirl crap. Ts'all garbage to me... Burst fueling kills ALL ENGINES. Gas, diesel, big, small, pregnant, lactating, etc... that is why even cars are going to multi point direct injection firing up to seven times per stroke for duration burning, hence the advent of Piezo wafer injectors. ;)

I wonder how much better the top rod bearing will look when it is time for an overhaul, I would say there will be quite a bit of longevity added.

OTT, I agree with what you said about the EGR, will it help on the random ones that decide to lock the wrist pin up and window the block at around 600K.

OTT
03-12-2011, 02:16 PM
[QUOTE=ynot;1069645]

I wonder how much better the top rod bearing will look when it is time for an overhaul, I would say there will be quite a bit of longevity added.

OTT, I agree with what you said about the EGR, will it help on the random ones that decide to lock the wrist pin up and window the block at around 600K.

I dont know about that. When I have seen vented crank cases it allways was the lack of care that caused it. I have only seen one isx vent the crank case and it only had 650,000 on a cummins in frame. After building a new engine for that truck I was not pleased with cummins.

ynot
03-12-2011, 07:26 PM
I dont know about that. When I have seen vented crank cases it allways was the lack of care that caused it. I have only seen one isx vent the crank case and it only had 650,000 on a cummins in frame. After building a new engine for that truck I was not pleased with cummins.

Do me a favor and check the quote post line for accuracy (I had to change my post as it came up quoting Smokin). I didn't write that, regardless of whether it's rite or not. But yes, it adds tons of longevity to any engine when you reduce burst fueling ;)

Art387
03-12-2011, 10:41 PM
OK guys. Enough is enough. First episode of new series "ISX for Rednecks" tonight. Stay tuned, it's really high time to finally learn about the best engine of last few years :thumbsup

SmokinCAT
03-12-2011, 11:07 PM
I dont know about that. When I have seen vented crank cases it allways was the lack of care that caused it. I have only seen one isx vent the crank case and it only had 650,000 on a cummins in frame. After building a new engine for that truck I was not pleased with cummins.

A local company around me has I think 5 of them sitting on pallets most have had the number 3 rod come out of them some its just a hole, but the one that sticks in my mind had about a third of the block missing. They were fighting with cummins over one of them that had less than 100K on a rebuild done by cummins.

From the shop supervisor, I got the impression that cummins was just pulling excuses out of the air trying to get out of covering it.

One I remember was that cummins said the air filters were being changed too often and a fresh filter would let too much dirt in, stupid chit like that.

IIRC they were 400hp egr engines.

SmokinCAT
03-12-2011, 11:09 PM
Do me a favor and check the quote post line for accuracy (I had to change my post as it came up quoting Smokin). I didn't write that, regardless of whether it's rite or not. But yes, it adds tons of longevity to any engine when you reduce burst fueling ;)

I noticed that too, I dont know why it came up that way the first time, might just be when we quote someone that quoted someone else. I havent the slightest though, could be something to do with the new owners.

OTT
03-13-2011, 06:29 AM
OK guys. Enough is enough. First episode of new series "ISX for Rednecks" tonight. Stay tuned, it's really high time to finally learn about the best engine of last few years :thumbsup

hahahahahahahahaha
sorry ynot I dont know why it put your name in there. It is nothing new for cummins not to stand behind there warranty. They know they have a real crappy engine that is why they spend more time advertising then fixing them. I am building pete gliders in my shop right now the only engine that I will install is CAT. I dont like my trucks breaking down. Funny thing is when they are out of the shop and running down the road they are making the company money so that is why cat is were it's at!

ynot
03-13-2011, 06:19 PM
I noticed that too, I dont know why it came up that way the first time, might just be when we quote someone that quoted someone else. I havent the slightest though, could be something to do with the new owners.??? Did I miss something??

hahahahahahahahaha
sorry ynot I dont know why it put your name in there. It is nothing new for cummins not to stand behind there warranty. They know they have a real crappy engine that is why they spend more time advertising then fixing them. I am building pete gliders in my shop right now the only engine that I will install is CAT. I dont like my trucks breaking down. Funny thing is when they are out of the shop and running down the road they are making the company money so that is why cat is were it's at!

:happymugs ;)

SmokinCAT
03-13-2011, 06:33 PM
Tony, check the announcement section at the top of the main forum page, I didn't catch it until earlier this week. I thought something might have been up with seeing all these new google ads on some of the pages, that just confirms it.

black_dog106
03-13-2011, 07:21 PM
??? Did I miss something??
:happymugs ;)

Was a thread the general section "staff changes". I posted a couple of times about hoping the heavy section stayed as is. Made a couple of comments about some of the posts... guess the powers didnt like it. I have been thrown out of the thread...:)
Lets hope they leave this section as is and leave us alone...:happymugs