13 speed not shifting right [Archive] - TheDieselGarage.com

: 13 speed not shifting right


cdwood388
03-05-2011, 04:22 AM
I have a 13 speed eaton and the high low on the high side of trans is not working correctly. When its in gear and you shift the red switch to the high side it will work fine, if you shift it back to low it will work fine. If you try to pull it out of gear to upshift and switch the red switch to the low side it will not shift and it just sounds like its trying to shift but its not and it wont go into any gear and you have to stop and start again. What would cause this? I just got the truck and it does this no knowledge if it used to work or what. It shifts great otherwise throught the 9 gears. Any help is appreciated.

379Longhood
03-05-2011, 04:41 AM
First check to see if your trans has an air filter before the regulator, if so clean it, if not check the air pressure after the regulator, the link to the specs can be found in the handy links sticky at the top of the forum, roadranger literature center, if that is ok the shift fork on the splitter is prolly worn and not putting enough pressure on the syncro (aux section rebuild)

SledMan
03-05-2011, 11:48 AM
I have a 13 speed eaton and the high low on the high side of trans is not working correctly. When its in gear and you shift the red switch to the high side it will work fine, if you shift it back to low it will work fine. If you try to pull it out of gear to upshift and switch the red switch to the low side it will not shift and it just sounds like its trying to shift but its not and it wont go into any gear and you have to stop and start again. What would cause this? I just got the truck and it does this no knowledge if it used to work or what. It shifts great otherwise throught the 9 gears. Any help is appreciated.

This is a shot in the dark, but I think you are trying to drive a RTO like a RTLO. You cannot pre-select a splitter shift on a RTO. When you try this, it will get caught in the middle, and like you say, you have to almost stop to get it in gear.

RTLO's are made to change the splitter while you are in neutral with no problems.
I may be way off on this....not sure.

359kool
03-05-2011, 12:02 PM
:whs Sledman, You could've just said.. Hey now, Quit tryin to split them gears in neutral.. LOL

OTT
03-05-2011, 01:23 PM
i am with sledman you have to pre select.

Flyingpig
03-05-2011, 01:51 PM
I have always preselected in every 13speed Ive ever driven.

Not to hijack the thread but I have a 14609B that I had a splitter added to. The trans was a rebuild from a respected shop in the area and the splitter was brand new. Ive spent the last 5 years trying to learn how to shift it. All the pressures are correct.

What I found "worked" was to shift to OD then move the lever up to the next gear and downshift to direct. Downshifting worked like it was supposed to. Recently Ive been upshifting by moving the splitter to OD just after the lever has gotten to neutral and hitting the jake to dump the RPMs. It scuffs every gear. If I dont use the jake it wont shift until the engine falls to idle. The splitter works fine if Im not moving the lever.

SL3406
03-05-2011, 02:06 PM
What I found "worked" was to shift to OD then move the lever up to the next gear and downshift to direct.

Thats how a RTO 13 speed is suppose to be shifted.

Flyingpig
03-05-2011, 02:21 PM
I cant agree there. Let me be clear. Lets say Im in 7th direct and shift to OD. To shift up I had to move the lever to 8th OD then shift back down to direct, then as speed increased up shift to OD. That doesnt make any sense at all thats the prescribed way to upshift.

And like I said, for the last 30 years Ive been preselecting all 13 speeds till I got this one built. Granted, mine is a bit a a hybrid. My lowly 9 spd now has 3 overdrives.

AaronF
03-05-2011, 03:21 PM
Are you using 1/8" air line on the tranny or 5/32"? I noticed a huge difference after swapping to the larger 5/32” air line. The “dropping out of gear” when trying to split while shifting the lever has almost completely stopped.

Have you also checked the splitter solenoid/plunger on the tranny? If the truck sat for a length of time, or the air system has had a lot of moisture in it, there may be rust buildup in the plunger assembly. A good cleaning will help a lot.

379Longhood
03-05-2011, 04:05 PM
Preselecting puts pressure on the fork and syncro before crossing neutral, which is good if you only flip the button just berfore making the shift, if you leave it for long you wear the fork out, the fork is not hardened to prevent damage to the collar. And if every thing is set up right the syncro will pull it in . Bigger air lines is a good plan. you also need to make sure that the spliter is getting full air pressure in hi range, and is always "live" , it should have full regulator pressure in any gear position while in HI range.

SledMan
03-05-2011, 04:53 PM
I cant agree there. Let me be clear. Lets say Im in 7th direct and shift to OD. To shift up I had to move the lever to 8th OD then shift back down to direct, then as speed increased up shift to OD. That doesnt make any sense at all thats the prescribed way to upshift.

And like I said, for the last 30 years Ive been preselecting all 13 speeds till I got this one built. Granted, mine is a bit a a hybrid. My lowly 9 spd now has 3 overdrives.

Is this truck pertaining to your 30 year career? Or is this a new or different truck you just started driving? What year is it? Is it a RTO, or RTLO?

Will the splitter change from DIR to OD while in gear? Or only while in neutral?

You are in 7th and want to go to OD. Is 7th pertaining to the 9 pattern or 13 pattern? 7th in the 9 pattern is in direct, and OD in the 13 pattern. Then you say have to move the lever to 8th OD....it must have went to OD between 7th and 8th like you want.

We would love to help, but we need alot more info. Maybe a grandson riding with you with a video camera or something.

Flyingpig
03-05-2011, 05:22 PM
The truck is an 1989, the trans is an RTX. The shift pattern is the standard "H" or in other words, just like the Hurst 4 spd in your pickup or Chevelle or Mustang. I go through the gears in low range with no issue. When I move to hi range or direct I mean Im in 6th direct. Flipping the splitter would give me 6th OD and so on.

Ive had the truck since 1996 and ran it for a long time as a 9 speed. I never like the long jump from 8th gear(direct) to 9th(.73 OD) The truck has nearly 2 million miles on it. I was on my way home from Chicago the day before new years eve and a gear broke. I opted for a rebuilt trans and added the splitter box at that time. This trans has NEVER shifted correctly and has been back to the shop many times.

So, when Im in high range of the trans and the splitter in direct, I can shift to OD just fine. But when I want to go the the next whole gear(when I move the lever from 6th position to 7th) I can either A) move the lever while leaving the splitter in OD making it 7th OD and then "down split" to 7th direct, OR B) move the shift lever out into neutral, flip the splitter to direct, hit the jake brake while in neutral, bring the rpms back up and then move the lever to the next gear. Preselecting will guarantee coasting to the shoulder to start over. The splitter will NOT engage any gear if you preselect until you nearly stop.

If I am in gear in the high range I can split up and down as much as I want with no issues. The problem comes when Im going from OD to direct while upshifting only. Downshifts are no problem. I can also shift the lever anywhere in the high range if I dont move the splitter(like a 9 spd) with no issues.

I got the splitter so I could shift a half a gear when needed, not shift the whole gear then back peddle.

SledMan
03-05-2011, 06:21 PM
The truck is an 1989, the trans is an RTX. The shift pattern is the standard "H" or in other words, just like the Hurst 4 spd in your pickup or Chevelle or Mustang. I go through the gears in low range with no issue. When I move to hi range or direct I mean Im in 6th direct. Flipping the splitter would give me 6th OD and so on.

Ive had the truck since 1996 and ran it for a long time as a 9 speed. I never like the long jump from 8th gear(direct) to 9th(.73 OD) The truck has nearly 2 million miles on it. I was on my way home from Chicago the day before new years eve and a gear broke. I opted for a rebuilt trans and added the splitter box at that time. This trans has NEVER shifted correctly and has been back to the shop many times.

So, when Im in high range of the trans and the splitter in direct, I can shift to OD just fine. But when I want to go the the next whole gear(when I move the lever from 6th position to 7th) I can either A) move the lever while leaving the splitter in OD making it 7th OD and then "down split" to 7th direct, OR B) move the shift lever out into neutral, flip the splitter to direct, hit the jake brake while in neutral, bring the rpms back up and then move the lever to the next gear. Preselecting will guarantee coasting to the shoulder to start over. The splitter will NOT engage any gear if you preselect until you nearly stop.

If I am in gear in the high range I can split up and down as much as I want with no issues. The problem comes when Im going from OD to direct while upshifting only. Downshifts are no problem. I can also shift the lever anywhere in the high range if I dont move the splitter(like a 9 spd) with no issues.

I got the splitter so I could shift a half a gear when needed, not shift the whole gear then back peddle.

Thats what I am trying to tell you. You have a RTX9 speed with a 14613 aux section...making it a RTOO 13 speed. It will shift just like any RTO 13 speed. You are not supposed to pre-select a splitter going through a lever change.

Your option A is the correct way to do an upshift and splitter change at the same time. If you want to go upshift from 7th OD to 8th DIR...you have to go to 8th, then back to DIR with the splitter. ONLY the newer RTLO's will let you pre-select a splitter change. That was the purpose of the RTLO.....L means Low Inertia, meaning the auxillary drive gear is not splined to the main shaft.

The purpose of this was to do just what you want...pre-select a splitter change. What you have was not designed to do this. Sure, you can Jake and make it work, but at what cost? Wear and tear.

SledMan
03-05-2011, 06:27 PM
The truck is an 1989, the trans is an RTX. The shift pattern is the standard "H" or in other words, just like the Hurst 4 spd in your pickup or Chevelle or Mustang. I go through the gears in low range with no issue. When I move to hi range or direct I mean Im in 6th direct. Flipping the splitter would give me 6th OD and so on.

Ive had the truck since 1996 and ran it for a long time as a 9 speed. I never like the long jump from 8th gear(direct) to 9th(.73 OD) The truck has nearly 2 million miles on it. I was on my way home from Chicago the day before new years eve and a gear broke. I opted for a rebuilt trans and added the splitter box at that time. This trans has NEVER shifted correctly and has been back to the shop many times.

So, when Im in high range of the trans and the splitter in direct, I can shift to OD just fine. But when I want to go the the next whole gear(when I move the lever from 6th position to 7th) I can either A) move the lever while leaving the splitter in OD making it 7th OD and then "down split" to 7th direct, OR B) move the shift lever out into neutral, flip the splitter to direct, hit the jake brake while in neutral, bring the rpms back up and then move the lever to the next gear. Preselecting will guarantee coasting to the shoulder to start over. The splitter will NOT engage any gear if you preselect until you nearly stop.

If I am in gear in the high range I can split up and down as much as I want with no issues. The problem comes when Im going from OD to direct while upshifting only. Downshifts are no problem. I can also shift the lever anywhere in the high range if I dont move the splitter(like a 9 spd) with no issues.

I got the splitter so I could shift a half a gear when needed, not shift the whole gear then back peddle.

The RTLO was designed for "newer breed" of drivers. These young drivers of today probably could never drive and older 13.

All of my newer W9"s have the RTLO 13's in them. My K100 has the old RTO 13 in it. One of my drivers (who had never drove an older 13) wanted to drive it sometime ago. I told him over and over it WAS NOT like the newer ones. But his ego pushed him to drive it. One trip to town and back was all it took.
He said he had to pull over 5 times to get it back in gear......told me something was wrong with it. I said, NO...thats just how they were made.

Flyingpig
03-05-2011, 06:31 PM
So why then do I have to kill the engine with the jake brake to make it shift?

This is the first trans I havent preselected. RTO 12513s, 9513s, 14613s. Like I said, been doing it for 30 years.

379Longhood
03-05-2011, 06:52 PM
have you checked the air pressure to the splitter?? , this having to go into the main then drop to direct in the aux is news to me too, the syncro should PUT the aux in direct as you cross neutral, the main shaft is loosing speed and as you catch the next gear up the speed should match and the aux should catch.
I haven't shifted a rto 13 for a while but I am pretty sure it just progressive shifted, sometimes on a worn aux the main had to catch first to make full engagement.

SledMan
03-05-2011, 06:57 PM
So why then do I have to kill the engine with the jake brake to make it shift?

This is the first trans I havent preselected. RTO 12513s, 9513s, 14613s. Like I said, been doing it for 30 years.

I would say to slow the engine down as quick as the trans to meet the same RPM.

Maybe i am missing something here. I am certainly not trying to question your driving ability, as you have 8 years more than myself.

Here is what i found that may help you out.....

Roadranger.com

14
Operation
Combination Range Shift and Splitter Shift - HI Range Overdrive to HI
Range Direct (5th OD to 6th DIR)
5. Immediately depress the clutch and move the gear shift lever to neutral.
Release the clutch, depress again, move the gear shift lever into
sixth gear, and move the splitter control button rearward into the directposition. Release the clutch pedal and accelerate.
Never move the splitter control button or the range lever with the shift lever in
neutral while the vehicle is moving.
6. Continue upshifting through the shift pattern. Double-clutching during
lever shifts, single-clutch during split shifts while the shift lever is
in the same position.
Downshift Procedure
In the following instructions, it is assumed that the driver is familiar with operating
heavy-duty trucks and tractors, and can coordinate the movement of the
shift lever and clutch pedal to make smooth gear engagements while upshifting
or downshifting. Always double-clutch when making lever shifts.
Never move the range lever or the splitter control button with the shift lever in
neutral while the vehicle is moving.
Splitter Shift - HI Range Overdrive to HI Range Direct (8th OD to 8th DIR)
1. Move the splitter control button into the rearward/direct position.
2. Then, immediately, release the accelerator, depress the clutch pedal
once to

Flyingpig
03-05-2011, 07:01 PM
Yes the pressure was checked and was fine.

And Im not trying to start a fight. Ive tried everything to make it work, even using the clutch. By clutching in ANY fashion you WILL stop on the shoulder to start over.

Im thinking that if Im "supposed" to make a whole gear shift up then there is no use to having a splitter for a half gear. I would still have to make a 500 rpm gear change, just exactly what I bought the splitter to avoid.

SledMan
03-05-2011, 07:02 PM
So why then do I have to kill the engine with the jake brake to make it shift?

This is the first trans I havent preselected. RTO 12513s, 9513s, 14613s. Like I said, been doing it for 30 years.

Im not very educated, but that says to me that you CANNOT let the splitter change from DIR to OD or vice versa while passing through neutral. That's how EVERY RTO was I have ever used.

Just trying to diagnose your issue without turning bolts, thats all.

Maybe someone else can help.

Flyingpig
03-05-2011, 07:03 PM
I found that same page on roadranger.com. Later today Im going to try changing the timing of my split to see if it makes any difference.

SledMan
03-05-2011, 07:04 PM
Yes the pressure was checked and was fine.

And Im not trying to start a fight. Ive tried everything to make it work, even using the clutch. By clutching in ANY fashion you WILL stop on the shoulder to start over.

Im thinking that if Im "supposed" to make a whole gear shift up then there is no use to having a splitter for a half gear. I would still have to make a 500 rpm gear change, just exactly what I bought the splitter to avoid.

Yes, momentarily you have to drop 500 RPM's, but THEN...flip the splitter and raise the RPM's back up.

379Longhood
03-05-2011, 07:04 PM
Ok I went thru the motion sitting in my chair here , and I think that I just flipped the splitter as the shifter was going into the next gear, so the aux had no time to go into neutral. I also came from a twin stick world to the roadranger (we used to call them automatics) so maybe my hands know something my brain doesn't

SledMan
03-05-2011, 07:07 PM
Ok I went thru the motion sitting in my chair here , and I think that I just flipped the splitter as the shifter was going into the next gear, so the aux had no time to go into neutral. I also came from a twin stick world to the roadranger (we used to call them automatics) so maybe my hands know something my brain doesn't

Thats exactly how I did it....just at the same time i was hitting the next gear, flip the button. Pre-select will screw up every time....did me anyway.

Flyingpig
03-05-2011, 07:07 PM
Ive been having to dump more like 1000 rpm out to make it go in and its never a smooth professional shift. I wonder if I got something from Friday at 4;55.

Now if I could just find me an old air 4x4 that would take this kind of torque...

359kool
03-05-2011, 07:30 PM
Dam you're patient Sledman.. I figured Flying Pig was trying to do the same thing as the OP..

Answer this.. How do these guys figure they can "split" a gear they're not even in yet, or while they're out of gear in neutral??? :roflol:

Here's how you split RTO gears..
1. Wind out direct, move selector to od, let off throttle..
Wind out od, shift gearstick to next gear, move range selector back to direct and bump throttle..
Simple as that, you just need slight coordination to drive a 13 speed..

Downshifting won't hang you in neutral if you're in direct and move the range selector to od in anticipation of the next lower gear, but up or downshifting has nothing to do with anything as far as the transmission knows.. Don't ever flip that range selector out of od until you're ready to let off the throttle.. If you're changing gears, do it, then make your range selection..

Don't feel bad fellows, you wouldn't believe how many do that and think something is wrong with the transmission..
Just be glad you know now, and maybe you didn't F'UP something doin it wrong.. :poke

Flyingpig
03-05-2011, 07:52 PM
Everyone needs patience. There is something wrong with this trans. In low range I get some intermittent but regular growling at low speeds under load. It doesnt happen in high range. It started shortly after the "we cant figure out whats wrong" stage about the same time as I gave up on the rebuilder and the shop. There is no unruly metal in the oil.

cdwood388
03-05-2011, 08:03 PM
That's great guys thanks this is my first truck and I am no truck driver. The trans shifts fine and now I see what I was doing wrong it is an rto 12513. I will give it a whirl tonight and see what happens and how I do.