: DT360 International conversion
12-10-2006, 08:21 PM
I have been looking at doing a conversion in my 78 Chev 1 ton dually flatdeck. It might be a little old but I like the truck and is now equipped with a 454 gas engine and a 3.21 rearend. The diff ratio makes the 454 strain with a load but makes it suitable for a diesel. I have looked at installing a 5.9l cummins mechanical but recently I found a DT360 in a 72 passenger bus with a 545 allison. It has 425,000 kms or approx. 256,000 miles. It runs well and doesn't seem to have any problems. The engine is an aftercooled rated at 185hp, 445 ft. lbs. torque at 1750. I have read on this site and others that the DT360 is a reliable engine that can be turned up a bit. I know that I will have to raise the cab and also build a doghouse. The plumbing in the engine will have to be rearranged to get more hood clearance. The aftercooler might have to be replaced with a Dodge unit or turn the original on its side. I like the idea of a mechanical engine compared to the newer electronically controlled.
Any thoughts from guys who have more experience with conversions and also with the DT360 engine?
12-10-2006, 08:56 PM
The only thing that I'm not so fond of is the AT tranny. Those dont have a lockup converter, and will make the tranny run real hot, not get the power to the ground, and lower fuel economy.
The 360 is pretty heavy & really reliable/durable. In a pickup, you can turn it up pretty high without too much worry. You'll have to probably send out your injectors to have them extrude honed or get new tips put on, if you want more than 230hp. Then, just shop for a performance turbo for a Dodge(Cummins 5.9). I think it'll need an adapter(T3 to T4 or visey versey) to fit, but I cant remember for sure. The aftercooler can be from a 91-93 Dodge & should fit real good.
12-12-2006, 02:07 AM
Thanks for the good advice nevrenufhp. I'm still weighing the International against the Cummins 5.9. There are upsides and downsides to both. The DT is going to take more work on the sheet metal and need more lift in the cab. To save the front end I think that it is important to not have the engine too far forward. The AT might not be ideal but since it is working in so many MDs it might work alright in a pickup until I find a good replacement down the road. I would keep the clutch pedal around in case I found the right manual transmission. What MD manual would you recommend for either the 360 or the 5.9 cummins? I also appreciate your site for turning up the fuel. A diesel mechanic explained the process to me but it is much better to have a few pics and the good explanation.
12-12-2006, 02:48 AM
There's so many manuals out there, it's hard to say..plus I'm not up on all the model #'s for them either. The AT may work out pretty good, you just gotta go do it. Remember, they shift slow, so dont expect a drag racer.
The site in my sig., I made about a year & a half ago, but on another web page. This one I have now allows for the pictures, so I coudnt pass it up...and it's free.
12-30-2006, 04:57 AM
You might be able to run the ZF 6 or NV 4500, or International 7 speed. I would think anything bolted to the back of a Powerstroke should fit. I don't know which SAE pattern the Powerstroke uses, I am pretty sure it does, that should make things a bit easier.
12-30-2006, 05:45 PM
The Allison AT 545 is an EXCELLANT match to the DT360, even at 210 or 230 HP. You will need a seperate external cooler, but you would with any trans. They will not run very warm at all in a light vehicle like you have. Even pulling HARD, I would be supprised to see 200*F ATF temps. if you used a radiator type cooler, and lower yet if an air-to-oil (ATF) cooler is used.
The DT360 does NOT need a CAC in 160-185 HP trim, that was done for emissions. At 190HP or more, you need the CAC to keep combustion and exhaust temps in check.
The pump from a same year DT 466 will fit as a direct replacement, for the DT 360 FYI.
12-30-2006, 08:47 PM
Thanks John and kblack
Very good information. I will check out the bellhousing specs for the ford-international v-8 diesels. The international or spicer 6+1 looks like a very nice transimission. Good ratios with the overdrive. Thanks for the thoughts on the 545 AT John. It felt good in the bus. I checked with a wrecker and 545s off of MD diesels are reasonably priced. My thoughts are that if I am going to do a conversion it is important to be able to locate replacement components easily. I am still tossing ideas around. It's easier to buy for example, a dodge cummins but the challenge of doing something myself is also important. When I see what Lawrence did with his DD371 in a ford, it is pretty inspiring. Some of the newer high mileage diesels run into big maintenance issues. The good thing about the MD diesels is that they were designed to work day after day. They may have been underpowered but perhaps that contributed to their longevity.
I appreciate the wealth of knowledge on this site. In looking through many of the archives alot of my questions have been answered.
12-30-2006, 09:08 PM
You are welcome.
The DT 360 has an SAE #2 bell as I recall in your application, including the 3-2 adapter (the FW housing is a #2, the adapter brings that down to a #3).
For bell sizing, look here: http://www.foleyengines.com/DDSK/DrDieselShopKink21.html
12-30-2006, 10:36 PM
Just remember that in F-250-550 the 7.3 does not have a SAE bellhousing, so a E4OD/4r100 or a ZF6 from those trucks will not fit. The International and F-650/750 7.3 trucks did have a SAE bell
I'm an IH guy, but if BIG streetable power is your goal for cheap money, then go with the 5.9L.
You'll have about a thousand different power increasing mods to chose from.
A DT360 has ZERO power adding mods, except a screwdriver for little 20-50HP tweaks and maybe Scheids or Hypermax for 1,000+ HP. They will get you way over what any M/D tranny can handle. That's the problem, there's no mild to moderate ways to make 300-500 HP DT's without a lot of trial & error.
1,000-2,000HP is no problem. LOL Keeping the driveline together after they've modified your DT is a different story.:sofa
12-30-2006, 11:12 PM
The F-series engines may not USE a bellhouding, but one IS available from International.
12-31-2006, 04:42 AM
The F-series engines may not USE a bellhouding, but one IS available from International.
That is exactly what I said. Someone mentioned using a ZF6 from a F-series behind the DT360 which will not work since the 7.3 and that ZF have a Ford bellhousing in that application.
Unless International sells a bell for the DT360 to bolt to Ford trannys
01-21-2007, 08:01 PM
This DT360 sounds interesting however my experience is any time you have to build a dog-house its just a lot of work. I have comepleted three diesel conversions to date the last one completed I use as a daily driver. Its a Ford 242 cu.in. inline 6 diesel from a Ford 6000 tractor in a 1982 full size Jimmy implementing the 700R4 trans. Works great. No body mods. necessary I am at present putting a VT378 cu.in. V6 24 valve in a 78 Chevy 1 ton dually flat deck with a MT-41 Allison 6 speed trans. with 3.21 gears. The engine and trans is hanging in the frame but must do all hook-ups yet. I chose the V6 cummins because its fits the compartment with only two small notches cut in the back side of X -member for pan corner clearance. I use a 3" cab lift and thats it. The 5.9 Cummin replaced the VT378 in the engine family. I have seen a article where the V6 was installed in Chevy 3/4 ton and the owner was very happy with it. The DT360 would no doubt be a good engine just more difficult to shoe horn in because of length. One old diesel converter said. You can put any engine in any vehicle it just takes lots of planning and a lots of work. Dieseldave
01-22-2007, 02:13 PM
I had a MT40 allison in my truck didn,t realy like it that much takes a lot of power to turn them.Is shifted sohard barked the tires every time it shifted after a while the shock startet braking the rear springs.I put the 10speed in and gained mpg.What did you get the VT378 out of.
01-22-2007, 09:58 PM
I have not heard about the hard shifting thing before but if it does in my I application I have a Spicer 5spd to put in. Might also try playing with the TV linkage length to soften the shifts. But I have heard they are a power robbing trans. The V378 was a stationary engine driving conveyers.
Thanks for the info.
01-23-2007, 04:10 AM
It's good advice to avoid doing the extra body work but then I don't always do things the easy way. I am leaning towards the 5.9l cummins because of the easier fit and the good availability of engines, although I really like the 360DT engine. It feels right. Right now I'm exploring different transmission options. (10 spd. 13 spd ,spicer 6+1 allison 545, 643 and the regular NV4500 and Dodge automatic)
When you mentioned your V6 cummins, it took awhile to remember where I had read about it. An old Chilton's manual has it listed at 155 HP@3300RPM and 289ft.lbs Torque at 1900RPM. Same bore as the 555 V8 with a shorter stroke. Has anyone tried to turbocharge it and with what results.?
Sounds like your truck is a litter mate to mine.
01-25-2007, 12:10 AM
I don't always do things easy either all the time. The 360DT sounds good if you get it at the right price particularly if it comes with Allison trans. Bus engines are well maintained. With small number diff. gears should work well. Great starting power with 6 in-line. How does the engine mount? One center mount in front and bellhuosing side mounts?
Yes those are the specs for the V378. I am building a turbo kit for the engine with turbo on RH manifold at the front end like the Banks kit for 6.2 GM to give more hood clearance. As for power have to wait and see what 25 lbs. boast will do.