Maximum tow capability [Archive] - TheDieselGarage.com

: Maximum tow capability


ovruigo
07-10-2007, 02:57 PM
Can anbody tell me the maximum towing capability of an 08 F-450

TIA....

Spatel23
07-10-2007, 03:10 PM
that totally depends on how you option it.
I think that the max for a properly equipped 450 is 24500lbs fifth wheel

ovruigo
07-10-2007, 03:17 PM
That weight doesn't include the truck right. I could actually tow something that combined with the trailer weight to be 24500

444turbodiesel
07-10-2007, 03:26 PM
With a 2WD F450 w/4.88 gears you can tow a 24,500lb trailer (approximate).
The max GCVWR for the F-450 is 33,000lbs with 4.88's or 29,000 with 4.30's.

ovruigo
07-10-2007, 03:27 PM
Thanks fellas

HighTQCummins
07-10-2007, 05:24 PM
With a 2WD F450 w/4.88 gears you can tow a 24,500lb trailer (approximate).
The max GCVWR for the F-450 is 33,000lbs with 4.88's or 29,000 with 4.30's.
Does that mean you would need a CDL since its over 26,001#?

ovruigo
07-10-2007, 05:27 PM
Does that mean you would need a CDL since its over 26,001#?


Looks that way. Sweet, when I replace my truck my daily driver will require a CDL.

Cattle-Dog
07-10-2007, 05:35 PM
Are you going to drive them commercially?

Cattle-Dog
07-10-2007, 05:45 PM
One technicality that makes the whole thing moot anyway. The F450 has a GVWR of 14,500 lbs, which is well below the 26,001 limit for commercial CDL's. The 29,000 number is the GCWR.

BROKER
07-10-2007, 06:03 PM
If trailer is over 10,000gw then you need a cdl unless its an rv .

The F450 reqires nothing if its for personal use , use it commercialy and you need a health card . Hook a +10,000gw trailer to , you will need the cdl.

Dot is having a ball this season with the F350,CK3500 and W3500 .They are making them stick DOT# on them if they cant prove personal use.

444turbodiesel
07-10-2007, 06:12 PM
Does that mean you would need a CDL since its over 26,001#?

If he is conducting commerce he would need a CDL, the 26,001 applies to any combination where the trailer is in excess of 10,000lbs (which it would have to be in order for a F450 to hit 26,001)

The only exception would be if he had a combination vehicle with a GCWR of less than 26,001, then the trailer could be over 10,000.

Example: If his truck was rated at 14,500 and his trailer was 11,500 he would not need a CDL as long as his actual weight did not exceed 26,001

444turbodiesel
07-10-2007, 06:13 PM
One technicality that makes the whole thing moot anyway. The F450 has a GVWR of 14,500 lbs, which is well below the 26,001 limit for commercial CDL's. The 29,000 number is the GCWR.

That's 26,001 for the COMBINED gross vehicle weight. :deal: (in commercial operation)

Cattle-Dog
07-10-2007, 06:24 PM
I stand corrected. ;)

Some reason OH's laws are not written very clearly. Here is one of many examles I came across:
Who Needs a CDL?
Under national (federal) rules you need a CDL if you operate any of the following vehicles:
- A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight (GVWR) of more than 26,000 pounds.
- A trailer with a gross vehicle weight (GVWR) of more that 10,000 pounds.
- A vehicle that carries amounts of hazardous materials that need placards.
- A vehicle that carries more than 15 persons including the driver.
There are four special endorsements and one special restriction for the CDL. All of these require certain
written knowledge tests. All CDL applicants must pass a CDL General Knowledge Test.

444turbodiesel
07-10-2007, 06:33 PM
DOT is having a party up here with the RV toters. Anyone with a dually pulling a large 5r is getting stopped. A lot of guys are trading for SRW trucks with lower ratings so they can haul the bigger trailers without a CDL (it's all about safety right?...smaller truck to pull a bigger trailer LOL )

Cattle-Dog
07-10-2007, 06:39 PM
Maybe if they just hung a couple of bicycles from the back ladder and slapped an AARP sticker on the back bumper, they'd overlook them... LOL

ovruigo
07-10-2007, 06:49 PM
The truck will be titled and insured under my company, I am leaning toward this truck because it will be Hauling my JD 310SG, Cat 307c and
Kubota 5400M. No combination of the previous meet weight requirements, but the truck will be used commercially as well as personal.

444turbodiesel
07-10-2007, 06:58 PM
The truck will be titled and insured under my company, I am leaning toward this truck because it will be Hauling my JD 310SG, Cat 307c and
Kubota 5400M. No combination of the previous meet weight requirements, but the truck will be used commercially as well as personal.

As long as the total combined weight ratings AND total combined actual weight do not exceed 26,001 (they go by the higher number) you'll be fine.

If your truck has a GVWR of 14,500 and your trailer has a rating of 11,500 and you overload it, you'll be in trouble (if they catch you)

ALSO...If you modify EITHER vehicle to increase its capacity (heavier springs, heavier rated axles, higher ply tires) DOT can inforce the CDL regulation even if your tags/door stickers say otherwise.:Thumbup:

444turbodiesel
07-10-2007, 07:22 PM
Maybe if they just hung a couple of bicycles from the back ladder and slapped an AARP sticker on the back bumper, they'd overlook them... LOL

I carry my personal trailer tag for just such an occassion even though I have a CDL.

superfly
07-10-2007, 07:32 PM
i have a 08' 450 that is rated at 14,500 and i pull a 2 car trailer rated at 11,500 and a dump trailer which was rated at 14,000 before i had the dealer derate the gvwr to 11,500. i figure that if i need the extra 2500 lbs. with the dump i can get away with it since i mostly will be using it local and there is not too many scales that i cant avoid.

ovruigo
07-10-2007, 08:32 PM
As long as the total combined weight ratings AND total combined actual weight do not exceed 26,001 (they go by the higher number) you'll be fine.

If your truck has a GVWR of 14,500 and your trailer has a rating of 11,500 and you overload it, you'll be in trouble (if they catch you)

ALSO...If you modify EITHER vehicle to increase its capacity (heavier springs, heavier rated axles, higher ply tires) DOT can inforce the CDL regulation even if your tags/door stickers say otherwise.:Thumbup:

310 sg alone weighs 16,900 lbs.

BROKER
07-10-2007, 11:04 PM
Speaking commercialy .

Cdl , 26001 is for straight jobs .

Trailer excedes 10,000gw you will need a cdl regardless of not exceeding 26001gcvw. Truck exceedes 10,001gvw you will need a healthcard & USDOT # .

444turbodiesel
07-11-2007, 12:28 AM
Speaking commercialy .

Cdl , 26001 is for straight jobs .

Trailer excedes 10,000gw you will need a cdl regardless of not exceeding 26001gcvw. Truck exceedes 10,001gvw you will need a healthcard & USDOT # .

:umno: The 26,001 is for straight trucks and combination vehicles. If you have a combination vehicle that has a GCWR of 26,001 and the trailer alone is over 10,000 lbs you need a CDL even if the truck is under 26,001. If the combination is under 26,001 you do not need a CDL to pull a trailer over 10,000. If the trailer is under 10,000 you do not need a CDL if the truck is under 26,000.

An F-450 (14,500 GVWR) pulling a trailer rated at more than 11,501lbs commercially would require a CDL driver, the same truck without a trailer would not. The same truck pulling a trailer rated less than 11,500 would not either (under 26,001 combined)

Which is the reason the local RV toters are buying SRW trucks with low ratings; a F-250 with a 8800lb rating can pull a 17,200lb trailer without a CDL. Even though the GCWR of the truck is exceeded by 6,000lbs!!! (since that information is not posted anywhere on the vehicle)

Although, if you had a truck rated at 26,000 (or less) pulling a trailer rated at 10,000 (or less) you also would NOT need a CDL even though the GCWR is over 26,001 (and could be potentially as high as 36,000)

...it's all about safety though :damnit

BROKER
07-11-2007, 01:07 AM
:umno: The 26,001 is for straight trucks and combination vehicles.

If you have a combination vehicle that has a GCWR of 26,001 and the trailer alone is over 10,000 lbs you need a CDL even if the truck is under 26,001.

I AGREE

If the combination is under 26,001 you do not need a CDL to pull a trailer over 10,000.

Disagree

An F-450 (14,500 GVWR) pulling a trailer rated at more than 11,501lbs commercially would require a CDL driver, the same truck without a trailer would not.

AGREE

The same truck pulling a trailer rated less than 11,500 would not either (under 26,001 combined)

Disagree



Which is the reason the local RV toters are buying SRW trucks with low ratings; a F-250 with a 8800lb rating can pull a 17,200lb trailer without a CDL.

DisagreeI see them pulled over non stop. I see lots with out of service. The grace period has ended june 22nd 2007. We have towed numerous units in the last 2 months .We got to send 2 units to get them, not cheap. Lots of retired guys and I feel bad for them.

However, if you had a truck rated at 26,000 (or less) pulling a trailer rated at 10,000 (or less) you would NOT need a CDL even though the GCWR is over 26,001 (and could be potentially as high as 36,000)

Disagree


We are doing this everyday . Its part of my livleyhood in both businesses.

Any trailer 10,001gvw trailer requires a cdl regardless of the trucks gvw.

So to run commercialy with no cdl , the trailer has to be less than 10,000gvw and the truck has to be less than 16,000 gvw.Because you cannot exceed 26001 gcvw without a cdl.

But the 16,000gvw truck will still require a health card & US DOT #'s.Bi annual inspection and cannot pass scalehouses.


Here poke around .


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrguide.asp?section_type=A

thejdman04
07-11-2007, 01:12 AM
I just want to add make sure you have the proper license, and plates for your truck. Lately dot has been having a field day w/1 ton (and f450's). Around here anything "d" plate and above requires a safety sticker. There are tons of 1 ton dually's runnning aorund w/b plates (8000lbs) and no safety sticker dot sees the oppertunity. These trucks weigh 8k or over empty. Lets face it municipalities etc are broke, and when youg get into overweight and licensivng fines you start getting into the big money. Ignorance is not a free pass either. I dont mean to get o/t or condesending, but I see so many getting pulled down, its not a matter of it, its when, esp if you ever get inot an accident everything will get scrutinized. I see it this way, get yoru class A which shoudlnt be hard if you truly are qualified to drive the rig, a medical card under 100 bucks every couple years, and dont worry about it, or getting by.

superfly
07-11-2007, 06:51 AM
the reason i believe 444 is that when i had my dot audit the jersey trooper who came to my house looked inside my trucks door at my tag and told me that the 14,000 gvwr dump i was going to buy was going to put me 2500 lbs. overweight and that 11,500 lbs. would be the most my trailer could be tagged for
also would like to add that in my cdl manual it states a class A license is needed when a truck and trailer with a gcwr of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the gcwr of the vehicle being towed is more than 10,000 lbs.

if your trailer is less then 10,000 pounds , but your gvwr is 26,001 or more then you need a class B.

so it seems as long as you stay at 26,000 or under then you dont need a cdl.

Canyon JYD
07-11-2007, 09:21 AM
Why try and just get by? Go for the class A and don't have anything to worry about. Seems like common sense to me. If you don't and get caught I bet the cost is comparable to the Class A in the first place. If not your still out a lot of money. My class A cost me about 450-500 total. Written test and driving test at a test facility. If you can provide the vehicle it is a lot cheaper!!!

444turbodiesel
07-11-2007, 03:13 PM
We are doing this everyday . Its part of my livleyhood in both businesses.

Any trailer 10,001gvw trailer requires a cdl regardless of the trucks gvw.

So to run commercialy with no cdl , the trailer has to be less than 10,000gvw and the truck has to be less than 16,000 gvw.Because you cannot exceed 26001 gcvw without a cdl.

But the 16,000gvw truck will still require a health card & US DOT #'s.Bi annual inspection and cannot pass scalehouses.


Here poke around .


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrguide.asp?section_type=A

You do not need a CDL to pull a trailer over 10,000lbs as long as your GCVWR does not exceed 26,001...read the DOT rules.:deal:

I've been doing this for 20+yrs :Thumbup: We currently have 65 drivers operating in 5 states (tractors w/refer trailers) I used to have 12 drivers at one time under my authority toting RV's (w/pickups) in 49 states & Canada; but toting RV's is a hobby, not a business, and I'm busy enough keeping up with the trucks that actually make money.








I suggest you poke around some more...

copy/pasted from your link:

Question 2: Is a driver of a combination vehicle with a GCWR of less than 26,001 pounds required to obtain a CDL even if the trailer GVWR is more than 10,000 pounds?

Guidance: No, because the GCWR is less than 26,001 pounds. The driver would need a CDL if the vehicle is transporting HM requiring the vehicle to be placarded or if it is designed to transport 16 or more persons.

Also copied from same link:

Question 6: A driver operates a tractor of exactly 26,000 pounds GVWR, towing a trailer of exactly 10,000 pounds GVWR, for a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. HM and passengers are not involved. Is it a CMV and does the driver need a CDL?

Guidance: No to both questions. Although the vehicle has a GCWR of 36,000 pounds, it is not a CMV under any part of the definition of that term in 383.5, and a CDL is not federally required


These are federal regulations, states may enforce stricter regulations for intrastate commerce.

superfly
07-11-2007, 03:49 PM
i agree that the class A is the way to go, but there might be other cost.
such as.
you need to carry more insurance. 1 million instead of 750,000

you might have to pay highway use tax(around $550 per year)i think you have to be over a certain weight to qualify for this, not sure

you have to pay fuel tax

i pretty sure you have to have apportioned plates.

not 100% sure about all this so correct me if im wrong.

444turbodiesel
07-11-2007, 04:21 PM
i agree that the class A is the way to go, but there might be other cost.
such as.
you need to carry more insurance. 1 million instead of 750,000

you might have to pay highway use tax(around $550 per year)i think you have to be over a certain weight to qualify for this, not sure

you have to pay fuel tax

i pretty sure you have to have apportioned plates.

not 100% sure about all this so correct me if im wrong.

For LD trucks none of that applies, but for HD, your right except for the insurance, you're only required to have $1M for HM, most fleets get it anyway.

Even running without the extra expense (under the CDL bubble), RV toting is not profitable long term.

Sorry...:hijacked: :bang

BROKER
07-11-2007, 06:32 PM
We dont haul RV either , only when they get put out of service do we tow them with our recovery devision .We only haul our own property , vehicles to and from auction or concrete equipment to and from site.We are interstate carriers with HM & Authority .

Then why is the whole NE dot enforcing the +10,000gw on trailers, with non cdl drivers ? We were told June 22nd was the last day. Most trailer shops in our area are advertising 9999 gw dot beater trailers too.

superfly
07-11-2007, 06:49 PM
444 are you telling me you dont have to pay the IRP and IFTA fees? the reason i ask is that on the new jersey motor vehicle commission website it states that any combination with a gvwr of 26,001 or more that travels out of state qualifies for these fees. i would paste a link if i knew how. if this is not correct then maybe someone can place a link showing me im wrong.

444turbodiesel
07-11-2007, 06:54 PM
I said LD trucks (under 26,001) do not have to pay IFTA or apportioned fees.

superfly
07-11-2007, 07:03 PM
sorry 444, you did say ld. this is very confusing for someone just starting out. but thanks again for all your knowledge on this topic.

444turbodiesel
07-11-2007, 07:04 PM
Then why is the whole NE dot enforcing the +10,000gw on trailers, with non cdl drivers ? We were told June 22nd was the last day. Most trailer shops in our area are advertising 9999 gw dot beater trailers too.

If the combined weight of the vehicle is over 26,000 the 10,000lb trailer rule applies.

This is calculated by the total rated capacity of the equipment or the actual weight (from a scale) of the combination or the combined registered weight (from the tags) the highest figure is the one they use

As I stated earlier, states can enforce stricter regulations, but they should only apply to intrastate commerce.

Also, if DOT sees a trailer that is obviously under-rated (like a 9,999lb trailer with tandem 7500lb axles) they can enforce the 10,000lb rule regardless of the stated capacity or registered weight.

It doesn't take much imagination to see this could be applied to trailers:

Question 4: If a vehicle with a manufacturer's GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds has been structurally modified to carry a heavier load, may an enforcement officer use the higher actual gross weight of the vehicle, instead of the GVWR, to determine the applicability of part 383?

Guidance: Yes. The motor carrier's intent to increase the weight rating is shown by the structural modifications. When the vehicle is used to perform functions normally performed by a vehicle with a higher GVWR, 390.33 allows an enforcement officer to treat the actual gross weight as the GVWR of the modified vehicle.

444turbodiesel
07-11-2007, 07:24 PM
We dont haul RV either , only when they get put out of service do we tow them with our recovery devision .We only haul our own property , vehicles to and from auction or concrete equipment to and from site.We are interstate carriers with HM & Authority .

This might apply to your situation:

Question 5: Do tow truck operators need CDLs? If so, in what vehicle group(s)?

Guidance: For CDL purposes, the tow truck and its towed vehicle are treated the same as any other powered unit towing a nonpowered unit:

--If the GCWR of the tow truck and its towed vehicle is 26,001 pounds or more, and the towed vehicle alone exceeds 10,000 pounds GVWR, then the driver needs a Group A CDL. --If the GVWR of the tow truck alone is 26,001 pounds or more, and the driver either (a) drives the tow truck without a vehicle in tow, or (b) drives the tow truck with a towed vehicle of 10,000 pounds or less GVWR, then the driver needs a Group B CDL. --A driver of a tow truck or towing configuration that does not fit either configuration description above, requires a Group C CDL only if he or she tows a vehicle required to be placarded for hazardous materials on a "subsequent move," i.e. after the initial movement of the disabled vehicle to the nearest storage or repair facility.

BROKER
07-12-2007, 01:32 AM
All my drivers have class A CDl , since they move in and out of all different trucks we own up to class 8.

This is what we use for Recovery .

ovruigo
07-12-2007, 02:31 PM
Damn good lookin truck

Rich
08-18-2007, 08:30 AM
3/4 ton trucks around here are getting tickets pulling bumper-pull trailers with two 5,200# axles or better. :shrug:

SouthTexasDiese
08-18-2007, 09:33 AM
Wow, I was surprised after reading this. I've been towing trailers in Texas for years with gross weights exceeding 17k. I even towed a 24k Case track loader with a 99 F-350 SRW, didn't even get looked at twice by highway patrol while passing several weigh stations.

I guess they stick to the semi-rigs lookin for drugs comin in from mexico.