Just curious what the thoughts, more so from a drag racing perspective, are about running an intercooler vs not running an intercooler. I do plan on testing this on a dyno in the next few weeks but wanted to throw it out there for some discussion prior to. So isthere an advantage / disadvantage to running an intercooler during a 1/4 mile race, how about an 1/8 mile race? What if your running nitrous or water (although I guess you would need alot of water to compensate)

Your thoughts?

Ted

I think that you could flow more air without one. You would have to spray water, but that isnt a bad thing. Most of the big boys run without one. That being said, most of them run twins and retarded amounts of boost. I think there is a point at which the innercooler becomes a restriction, but I can't say exactly where it is.

Outside of Darren, who else doesn't run one? I don't count the rails and the Keating type trucks, I was more curious about using it / not using it in the prostreet application.

I have hear dthat you get a few more lbs of boost when you don't use it, but you also get a lot more heat too.

I honestly dont think we can move enough air through a 24v with a VP44 for it to make a difference. Chris obviously has not hit the wall with his setup., but you would almost have to dyno side by side to tell IMO. I dont know of a VP44 truck without one...

Ted,depending on the setup(twins,or single) the intercooler becomes more of a restriction as airflow rises.If you are only running a single and keeping boost in the 50psi range,I would think you need to keep it,because first off the air is very hot from a single at 50psi,and it isnt flowing enough air to drop more than a few psi across the intercooler,which is a worthwhile trade off.Once you start hitting 75+PSI,and the higher CFM that goe with twins,the stock intercooler really becomes a big choke,you'd need an extra boost guage,but you can measure your loss across it easily under full power.I wouldnt be suprised if i was losing close to 10PSI across my intercooler under full power/boost with my twins,but ive never actually checked it.A buddy of mine with twins picked up a Haisley intercooler after popping his stocker,we never measured his stocker,but the haisley is supposed to flow more air than stock.

Nice to hear from you John, hope all is well with you.

I have heard about the aftermarket intercolers, and the numbers you mentions seem in line with what I have "heard" that you lose with an intercooler. So now, a few more questions..

Is there an advantage, in a single turbo application, when using nitrous/water? How about a twin application with nitrous/water?

What does an intercooler weigh anyhow, I haven't seen one out of a vehicle. Wonder if its a good way to drop some weight in the front, in a race truck.

Ted, thank you, I have been keeping a low profile. I need to get to a meet again. I have my original intercooler sitting in the shop ,my guess its around 25lbs,maybe a little more. IMO the best setup on a 24V for max power on the rollers is the simplest, fueling box,big single,big sticks,lots of N20.IMO twins dont add any peak HP when running N20,so long as your exhaust housing on your big single and wastegate are tuned properly,you'll make the same or more peak power with a big single,than with twins.You will need a lot more N20 to do it though.

Yeah, I agree, but I am contemplating big single with nitrous vs twins with water injection. I know I will probably make more peak hp with single and nitrous, but I think the twins would be more consistant and cheaper to run week after week. The intercooler thoughts came up during the single vs twin debate.

Can we all agree that te HP curve on a #2 and twins run is less peaky than an n20 run?

I agree,that is why i twinned my truck.It is much cheaper,and performance is very close,twins are much smoother than a big single and spray,there is no "hit",so its deceptive.I thought my truck was slower with the twins than with B1 and spray,it was my imagination,if anything it was quicker,and the MPH was up 2 MPH from 109.2 to 111.8.It just felt slower since there was no hard hit,just sneaky,smooth power which is very quiet with HX40/3B.Funny the dyno shows im down 60hp from the single/spray with my twins,but performance at the strip,and MPH are up,it just shows the dyno is a good tool,but not the final word. Look at C-Hawks truck,its performance far exceeds its dyno numbers also. I know you already know this,but Don M's injectors are a huge part of the reason these trucks are running like they do,they are simply amazing,the balance of power/smoke and drivability he has managed to put into a Mach 6/7 is incredible.

I would agree with that statement.

I know torque is a product of hp, or is it the other way around, regardless can the same be said of the torque readings of #2 and twins vs single & nitrous?

I think personally that twins are better at the track than a single with spray. If you can get the truck tuned to run in the meat of the power, the whole way down the track, you can outrun a truck that has a "peakier curve" and more power. If it were me, Id run twins before a sinle and spray as well..

and if that is the general conscience, then #2, twins, no intercooler and water injection "should" be better for consistant power and I would think ultimately cheaper too. Right?

I would think so.....

Tim,for all out performance,with no reguard to streetablity I feel the single/spray will outperform the twins at the track.This is provided the truck has been set up for the single,and has the traction to take adavntage of the N20"hit" without wheelspin,and the TC stall is set up for the big laggy single to get into its map at the launch,and the N20 is tuned right,pressure is right,etc... its all in the setup.IMO,if anything isnt right the twinned truck will usually outrun it. I still feel its mostly the proper setup and selection of parts that work together. Most trucks running the spray/big single are running the wrong TCs,and shift points for the track because the truck reacts so much differently "off the bottle" that tuning for the track only on spray makes the truck not very much fun to drive when not spraying.IMO,tuning a twinned truck is a little easier.

and cheaper, nitrous is expensive these days.

Maybe I will have to unwrap those twins that have been sitting on the bench for months now....guess we'll just have to wait and see.

what combo you got Ted? if you dont wanna tell any secrets LOL PM me...

tsk tsk I can't give everything ya know...

It seems to me that an intercooler dont have much of a chance to do anything in 10 seconds does it? We have been wrenching with that around here for our Dmax's and have yet to get anywhere positive with info. I'm not interested in spraying water in it either....Hmmmmm

I am curious if anybody has ever tried any comparisons. Where is David when we need him...When I get my truck back, I do plan on trying this on the dyno at least.

I have a solution, get the twins, and spray NOS!!! :-)

to do that with my truck, I would have to add a ton of weight to meet the DHRA weight requirements for two power adders, not something I want to do.

Ted............Look at it this way. 750 on motor and the right twin setup. Spray water and gain maybe, up to 810 HP. Then take a single and make 600 on motor. Then add the bottle rocket and you add 250 HP.

To me, if a person wants to spray, build the motor to withstand 850HP and 100 lbs of boost. Find the biggest turbo you can spool, a small shot there to get it turning, then launch within reason, at 850 HP and a cool engine, which do you think will be the fastest? If I ever get to a point where I build my truck to the Pro Street level, that's my plan, and the truck will do it, run after run.

My thinking out loud.

..Preston..

Preston,

Which do you think would be more susceptible to atmospheric changes, #2 and twins or #2, single and nitrous? By more susceptible, I mean which do you think would be more consistant over a long day with alot of changing temps.

Did you guys ever test an intercooler vs an non-intercooler setup?

Ted

Without a question, the single and bottle would be. The nitros is like a controlled enviroment. It will be the same, where the twins has to "draw in" the air avalible. Nitros is not a variable temp adder. lt will always be the same. I guess at times, some conditions would differ, but it would be way more constant than twins. Twins are just subject to what the conditions are at the time.

What it really boils down to, is do you make it on motor with your knowledge, or admit to a limited knowledge of how a diesel works, and seek help with a power adder like drugs. Most folks really do not understand how a diesel makes power. But then again, the spray is a lot cheaper than the other.

Me, I have no choice but to go the cheaper way. There is a lot more satisfaction knowing the times you make at the strip, are with the work you did and not with just a "booster". I know what to do, but the $'s hold me back

This I can tell for sure, the speeds and times we saw last year are in the past. Nobody is sitting on what they did. Speeds are going up and times are on the way down.

..Preston..

When it cost around 70 dollars to fill up a 15 lb bottle that you only get a few passes out of, I would think twins would pay for themselves pretty quick.

When it cost around 70 dollars to fill up a 15 lb bottle that you only get a few passes out of, I would think twins would pay for themselves pretty quick.

Where are you paying 4.66 a pound for nitrous? :umno:

I agree completely with the single turbo and nitrous method. It can be very consistant no matter what the air conditions are.

That's my story and I am sticking to it even if I don't know how to make any power. ;)

the place I got them filled, a welding shop in MD, was charging between 65 - 70 bucks to fill an empty 15 lb bottle. I thought it seemed high, but that waqs the only place around that could do it also, so......

Ted,
Did you need to get a State issued permit to get the Nitrous bottle filled? I had to do that here-N.J. and wait a month for the danged thing to come in the mail! Other than that it cost me $40. to fill a ten pounder and are you using a bottle controller? You get a lot more out of bottle when it is kept at the optimum temp and pressure....

No license needed, and yes I have a bottle controller. Since I am in MA now, I won't have that problem again this year anyhow.

Skip an intercooler for the most power. Just remember that your water system must be bulletproof and built with redundancy. If it fails, the engine could easily melt.

Don~

Don,

Do you know if anybody has ever dynoed with and without an intercooler, and whether there were any gains?

Ted

We tried a water to air intercooler and ran the same track times. NO dyno testing though. The water to air set weighed over 300 pounds wet. I would say there was a gain there to run the same times with the extra weight to carry.
Never got to dyno it, but will soon.

I would suspect the water injected air would be tunable to make more power by lowering the pressure drop you get across an intercooler.

Hey (donny boy) whats up. My 2nd post here LOL LOL LOL

Without a question, the single and bottle would be. The nitros is like a controlled enviroment. It will be the same, where the twins has to "draw in" the air avalible. Nitros is not a variable temp adder. lt will always be the same. I guess at times, some conditions would differ, but it would be way more constant than twins. Twins are just subject to what the conditions are at the time.

What it really boils down to, is do you make it on motor with your knowledge, or admit to a limited knowledge of how a diesel works, and seek help with a power adder like drugs. Most folks really do not understand how a diesel makes power. But then again, the spray is a lot cheaper than the other.

Me, I have no choice but to go the cheaper way. There is a lot more satisfaction knowing the times you make at the strip, are with the work you did and not with just a "booster". I know what to do, but the $'s hold me back

This I can tell for sure, the speeds and times we saw last year are in the past. Nobody is sitting on what they did. Speeds are going up and times are on the way down.

..Preston..
Preston by the way you wrote it earlier,water is a power adder on a 12 valve at leasst when you add it it alows you to run more power with out mass destruction?how is that different from drugs?what would happen to a truck making 800 hp on fuel and twins with no water,could it make enough passes to stay together at a prostreet event and run the gauntlet?

The fastest car and trucks use an IC,nuff said.

Water???No,we want to actually want to cool the intake charge,methanol all the way.

If I remember correctly, Darren doesn't use one, and thats who I would say is the fastest truck right now.

You would be correct Ted