dt 466 issues [Archive] - TheDieselGarage.com

: dt 466 issues


navistar45
06-18-2009, 03:48 AM
ok guy's, need some thoughts or suggestions. about 2 weeks back i bought a flat nose schools at a school auction. its a international chassis, with the 466 engine and allison 545 auto, mileage is 100k. [1995 model] any way the bus starts and idle's fine as any 466 i have owned, wether the eng temp is hot or cold. about a 1/2 mile after leaving the auction site and getting up to the posted speed of 55mph, the engine would bog down and start blue smokeing bad, rpms drop as low as 1300 with foot pedal at half or full thottle either one. it would do this intermediatly, and then run fine for a 1/4 to half mile or so, and do it again. during the 50 mile trip home, speeds would drop from around 55/60mph, down to sometimes as low as 30. i pulled over and the engine would idle just fine, and the smoke would stop, no noise other then the normal engine noise. it did this numerous times the whole way home there is no blowby on the engine, no loss or rise of the oil level, and the coolant is fine as well. i changed the fuel filter, although it looked clean. it acts as though it's getting air, but mainly does this under a load only. sitting in park, it's hard to duplicate the problem by just gunning the engine, however it will to a small extent act up. the fellow following me home said the smoke had a rich fuel smell to it when the blue smoke starts to roll . any thoughts before i go to spending a lot of time traceing for fuel leaks[ so far i havent found any drips or such] ??? thanks. jim

french277
06-18-2009, 08:34 AM
Je sais que vous avez vraiment changé les filtres de carburant cependant avez-vous drainé le réservoir encore ?

Belive moi il y a alot de rebut dans le réservoir il peut limiter le carburant flowage.

Un bout ici :

N'importe quand vous changez le filtre de carburant devient un vide peut et déposer tout le carburant du filtre et si vous voyez alot de gunk ou l'eau comming du filtre alors c'est un bon temps pour ouvrir l'évacuation de réservoir pour obtenir l'eau ou les algues peuvent faire boucher le tube de succion en haut avec des algues ou d'autres débris.


I know you did change the fuel filters however did you drain the tank yet ?

Belive me there is alot of junk in the tank it can restrict the fuel flowage.

A tip here :

Anytime you change the fuel filter get a empty can and dump all the fuel out of the filter and if you see alot of gunk or water comming out of the filter then it is a good time to open the tank drain to get the water or algae can get the suction tube clogged up with algae or other debris.


Merci,Marc

Bus Man
06-18-2009, 11:39 AM
Check the air filter. See if it's plugged up.

navistar45
06-18-2009, 01:41 PM
i drained the f filter marc, not a spec of anything came out. clean as a pin! i really hope there not a issue in the tank, trying to rule out the little stuff first. as for air filter, it crossed my mind, and although its very hard to get to, i think i will try that next. seeing it's hard to get to, might mean it hasnt been serviced in a while. after 10 years of owning 466 powered trucks, i can say other then one water pump replacment, i have never had to work on these engines! sorta lost as what the problem could be. keep the suggestions coming guys...

Binderpower
06-18-2009, 06:15 PM
Did you check the fuel pump. Everything is fine, in respects to to air leakage, is it blead etc, etc. I know I have had problems like this and it was a cheap in line fuel filter. One of those plastic ones that is fed by the rubber hose after it is filter from the primary and secondary filters. This doesn't have one of those on it does it? Just a thought...

french277
06-19-2009, 12:10 AM
Le filtre à air est possiblty dû l'autobus plat de devant a vraiment s'infiltrent la plus mauvaise tache qu'où vous prendrez vraiment des débris comme le grand temps.

Je suis juste devenu fait un certain mantainice sur le front d'appartement de Thomas Bus aussi le filtre est sous le pas de devant directement derrière le butoir :damnit je déteste cette tache finissent achètent un nouveau camionnage hébergeant dû le logement de filtre n'est pas utilisable!

Comme loin pour la jauge de restriction de filtre à air il devrait être sur la pipe de consommation entre le turbo et Filtre à air regarde autrement le côté passener directement derrière le panneau juste de devant qu'une de deux taches vous constaterez que la jauge de restriction est.

Ce logement cela m'a coûté peu plus de 100 dollars.

Ensuite le pas est le contrôle la ligne de carburant un jour ou l'autre ils arriveront enflent et limitent le carburant flowage là ainsi le contrôle cela aussi.



The air filter is possiblty due the flat front bus do have filter in the worst spot that where you will really pick up debris like big time.

I just got done some mantainice on the Thomas Bus flat front as well the filter is under the front step right behind the bumper :damnit I hate that spot end up buy a new cartage housing due the filter housing is non serviceable!

As far for air filter restriction gauge it should be on the intake pipe between the turbo and airfilter otherwise look at the passener side right behind the front right panel that one of two spots you will find the restriction gauge is.

That housing it cost me little over 100 dollars.

Next step is check the fuel line sometime they will get swell up and restrict the fuel flowage there so check it out as well.

Merci,Marc

navistar45
06-19-2009, 03:46 AM
you make a good point marc. the af location on many flatnoses is in a horrible location. i bought a blue bird with a 5.9 cummins last year, same location. i would really like to solve this issue with a simple airfilter change, summer time is the worst time for me to devote much time to anything but my contracting buisness. binder i have chkd for any aftermarket stuff, everything appear stock, and supprisely clean. i'am kinda wondering about a lift pump issue also?? keep the thoughts coming guy's..

french277
06-19-2009, 07:27 AM
Cela possiblty une question avec la pompe de relevage mais ce que je sais jusqu'ici useally du DT'S n'a pas la question majeure avec cela cependant avec Cummins B le moteur de série, Ouais j'ai entendu dire que l'abondance de cela, particulièrement avec la série de pompe de VP44 { de Dodge reprend les propriétaires ont la question avec cela vérifiez ainsi le Dodge prennent la section ils ont alot de bons bouts là}

Ici d'autre tour vous devriez essayer de faire pression en haut sur le réservoir à carburant {n'a pas besoin de beaucoup de pression environ 3 à 5 psig le feront} et si vous trouvez la fuite sous la pression qu'où vous aurez une fuite de trou d'épingle qu'il cause pour sucer l'air dans le système d'alimentation.



That possiblty a issue with lift pump but what I know so far the DT's useally don't have major issue with it however with Cummins B series engine, Yeah I heard plenty about it, especially with VP44 pump series { alot of Dodge pick up owners have issue with that so check out the Dodge pick up section they have alot of good tips there }

Here other trick you should try to pressure up the fuel tank { don't need much pressure about 3 to 5 psig will do it } and if you find the leak under the pressure that where you will have a pinhole leak which it cause to suck air in the fuel system.

Merci,Marc

Binderpower
06-20-2009, 04:26 AM
How is the fuel line, does it collapse? If the line is weak and weathered, it will collapse under vacuum and cause the fuel restriction... It is just a thought. I have had this happen as well, on a gasser though.

french277
06-20-2009, 08:27 AM
How is the fuel line, does it collapse? If the line is weak and weathered, it will collapse under vacuum and cause the fuel restriction... It is just a thought. I have had this happen as well, on a gasser though.

Il n'importe pas si vous avez le moteur diesel ou du gaz tous les deux résulteront le même la ligne de carburant peut s'effondrer. si vous frappez vraiment l'accélérateur durement que quand le flux de carburant est le plus haut qu'où il montrera.

It don't matter if you have diesel or gas engine both will result the same the fuel line can collapse. if you really hit the throttle hard that when the fuel flow is the highest that where it will show up.

Merci,Marc

navistar45
06-20-2009, 02:06 PM
the fuel line on this thing[at least near the engine] is a black hard plastic, about the size of my pinky[ 1/2 od]. everything i can see near the engine is ok, however what comes of the tank i havent crawled under to chk yet, i will do this this eve, when i chk that pain in the butt to get to air filter. what concerns me about the fuel lift pump is, when i changed the ff, i refilled it with fuel. i then started the engine , which ran for about 10 seconds and died. after that it sluggishly cranked and quickly died. after this i proceded to crack a couple of injectors, and go through the procedure to bleed air. i have this exact year/hp engine in a single axle truck, and have never had this issue after changeing a filter. after chking the lines off the tank, and af cartridge, i will then do the pressure test of the lines. question; what does the black plasic line of the back of the inj pump do. [ much like the one on the 5.9 inline pump cummins engine has ] i would guess some sort of vacume line?

french277
06-21-2009, 08:29 AM
the fuel line on this thing[at least near the engine] is a black hard plastic, about the size of my pinky[ 1/2 od]. everything i can see near the engine is ok, however what comes of the tank i havent crawled under to chk yet, i will do this this eve, when i chk that pain in the butt to get to air filter. what concerns me about the fuel lift pump is, when i changed the ff, i refilled it with fuel. i then started the engine , which ran for about 10 seconds and died. after that it sluggishly cranked and quickly died. after this i proceded to crack a couple of injectors, and go through the procedure to bleed air. i have this exact year/hp engine in a single axle truck, and have never had this issue after changeing a filter. after chking the lines off the tank, and af cartridge, i will then do the pressure test of the lines. question; what does the black plasic line of the back of the inj pump do. [ much like the one on the 5.9 inline pump cummins engine has ] i would guess some sort of vacume line?

J'ai écrit l'article se soulignant il y a deux petite ligne en arrière de l'injecteur le pompent selon lequel la voie il a fonctionné de.

Si du milieu en arrière de la pompe d'injecteur qui est la ligne de retour de carburant et qu'useally saignera de n'importe quel trou d'aération de.

Cependant si près de la voie soutiennent et que le petit tuyau diamater connecté au collecteur de consommation qui utilise pour le contrôle d'augmentation {pour ajuster le taux de carburant quand l'augmentation est en haut ou pas}

Pour la série B et la série DT je ne force presque jamais l'injecteur en haut du tout après que je change le filtre de carburant. J'ai utilisé la pompe de livre élémentaire {la pompe de relevage avec le levier manuel ou le plongeur} et la pompe cela pour quelque temps jusqu'à ce que cela devienne assez raide le mettent alors en marche {le seul temps je dois ouvrir la ligne de retour si le filtre est sec ou est tombé en panne de carburant ou le filtre monté horizontal}

I wrote the underline item there is two small line back of the injector pump it depending on which way it run from.

If from middle back of the injector pump that is fuel return line and that useally will bled out any air pocket out.

However if near way back and that small diamater hose connected to the intake manifold that use for boost control { to adjust the fuel rate when the boost is up or not }

For B series and DT series I almost never crack open the injector up at all after I change the fuel filter. I used the primer pump { lift pump with manual lever or plunger } and pump it for few time until it get pretty stiff then start it up { the only time I have to open up the return line if the filter is dry or ran out of fuel or horizontal mounted filter }

Merci,Marc

navistar45
06-22-2009, 02:05 PM
the black line heads off from a square housing bolted to the inj pump[4 bolts] and leads to the valvecover. i have chk the af, and it's clean. has less then 4k miles on it. all fuel line's from the tank to the engine appear in good shape. what stumps me about the primer pump, is when i changed the filter i generally use that procedure as well. never could get it to build pressue. this is the only dt i have ever had give issues of dying after changeing the filter. the only procedure i know to try next is to pressuer up the fuel line with air. maybe this will help.

Binderpower
06-24-2009, 01:32 PM
I wish I could be there to help. This is baffling me... I wanna know what is up. Keep us informed. The only other thing I can possibly think of is the fuel pump itself then. IDK?

navistar45
06-29-2009, 08:16 PM
sorry for the lack of a follow up. my construction buisness has been very busy, and i have had no time to troubleshoot the bus since my last reply. think i'am gonna rig up a secondary fuel source with an electric pump, and connect at the filter head. this would be a fairly quick and easy procedure, and if the issue goes away, i know it's line/tank related. something just has me worried about the lift pump though! i will post when i know more.

navistar45
07-06-2009, 01:53 PM
ok guy's, heres the latest. i chkd all fuel lines, and pressured up everything, no issues found and fuel flows fine. it takes very little air pressure to get fuel to flow from the tank, to the filter head. long story short, the only thing i can figure is injector pump. i have a used one off a 250hp engine, but dont feel like doing the labor. i will unload this one to a local salvage yard and get all my money back and then some most likely. there's a bounty for 466 engines... thanks for the suggestions folks.

nevrenufhp
07-06-2009, 01:58 PM
I'll gladly take a 466 donation:thumbsup:haha

navistar45
07-08-2009, 02:11 PM
tell ya what buddy, i would just about give it away before i deal with a salvage yard[so far] . called a few yards yesterday, one claims to have several in stock, and offered 700.00 [if that] for the unit. other one thinks he may have a buyer and will call back, still waiting. i gave a 1000.00 for it, and it's well worth it! i know what this stuff is worth, because i have had to buy from salvage yards before, and i have seen what the salvage guy's will give for stuff at auctions. [they cant even hear most that crap run!] i have a 9300 international with a m11 cummins in it, it has a broke rear spring and damaged fuel tank. salvage yard only offered 1k for it. it has six very good virgin tires on alchoa wheels that are worth that. anyway, my brother offered me what i have in the bus, just to have a spare engine for one of his wreckers if need be. two years ago we had to replace one in a 90 model 4900, that the driver ran bad hot. couldnt find a 466 engine in a 200 mi radius then, when we did it was 2500.00+ 500.00 core. shame we live so far apart, i have a 95 model engine i pulled from a 4900 2 years back, gotta lot miles on it, and i cant get it running.[think it may have a bad cam] i would likely let you have it . by the time you do the shipping and rebuild the engine, you could find a bus like i did for less money!?!

nevrenufhp
07-08-2009, 11:38 PM
If I had a 466 in my garage, I'd read it bedtime stories, tuck it in, and fluff the pillow. Maybe a little pat on the head.:D
It cost me $345 to ship an AT545 to me from Iowa, could only fear the cost of the 466. Maybe I could sneak it in my 67 F100:haha...not really. I would love to partake in your generousity. It's gotta be pretty hard to flatten a cam that has roller lifters, but some drivers can wreck anything. Hypermax has some good cams.:usflag

navistar45
07-10-2009, 02:29 PM
to be honest, i doubt i will do anything but robb parts of the engine if needed. it's a 250hp, but as mentioned has at least 450k on it, based on records that came with the truck.i have another 95 model in a bus, it has only 60k miles on it. looking to do a f450/550 conversion with that one someday, but it took nearly 6 months to do my cummins/gmc conversion. it was a fairly easy project, i just dont have much spare time to devote to such chores. jim..