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Cummins ISX Questions ??? HELP

70K views 38 replies 15 participants last post by  Dtech43 
#1 ·
I'd like to ask a few questions...I "HAD" an N14 Cummins 460+ engine set to 525 or maybe 500hp, not sure, but it was one hell of an engine, it did things for me that it should never had been asked to do....ie, I had a 97 International set up to haul a 11 axle RGN, and it had 600,000 miles on it, to start with, I rolled main and rods in it and hooked it up, it was not un usual to be grossing 172,000 and it NEVER let me down or missed a beat.... NOTHING, I put 75,000 HARD MILES on it and it got me through some very hard money times.

Anyway, I am in a little better shape now and away from the oversize business, I have a job I can start and never gross over 80,000 lbs, we have a new law up here in Ontario Canada, that makes us govern all our big trucks at 65 MPH.....so as you can see the job will not be hard on the truck and I will look after this truck as well as all of my equipment....I am the guy that is not into chrome, more into top sets, oil changes grease jobs, anything the truck needs or looks like it is going to need, it gets, after all, its the one making the money, right.

So I am looking at another International, I know its not a Pete or KW, but for me, it does the same job.....And I see, I cant buy any International newer then 03 without a cat or Cummins, I have heard some seriously bad horror stories about these ISX engines, I am looking at a 06 with a 450 ISX and a 13 speed trans, it has about 450,000 miles on it.....

My questions is.....Would it help this engine live longer if it had the egr valve taken out and the hole plugged with a pipe plug and the egr was tied up so all the electrical was still hooked up and getting power, maybe you would have to re adjust the computer or ??? , then roll in bearings and keep the oil changed every 10,000 miles ???

I have heard that they blow up because the oil is getting so dirty its wiping out the bearings, we spin one and out comes a rod......keep in mind, I am buying or looking at a used engine, so I dont know what the last people have done, although, these are fleet trucks ??? Is there a certain year to stay away from or one to buy ??? Help , sorry about the long story, I just wanted you to sorta see how I am and that I dont mind maintaining an engine, but I cant have it window its self or be in the shop all the time.....Shawn
 
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#2 ·
Well here we go!!!! Some people on here might hate my opinions but I dont give dam!!!!! I am not an engineer nor a 50 year master,but I have been around these engines SIG/ISX since their coming in 98,I have also seen and experienced the ups and downs of this engine. Unless you have some programming master genius in canada you cannot delete the egr system,although I have converted an CM870 engine[EGR] to a CM570 engine[PRE-EMMISION] but it was more time and money than it was really worth,the guy owned a junk hard to parts were readily available,but labor was intensive and some block off plate and custom mods were needed. As far as my knowledge and experience tells me,unless you change the oil once a year,or whenever you feel like it your not gonna have bearing/engine failure!!! I have no idea how hard you run nor how much power you need,but I would not be affraid of owning one,you will do an EGR valve here or their but there warrantied for 1 year or 100,000 miles,I would take my chances.... However if you had 500HP and were used to it 450 is not going to impress you! I would go 500,530,565. GOOD LUCK:toytruck
 
#3 ·
OK,thanks, I had only heard that rumor about by-passing the egr.....I must tell you, I was in a junk/scrap yard in OHIO and there was a row, ( 18-25) engines, they were all ISX'x and almost every single one had a hole in the side of the block !!!

I know there has to be some that break, but it shocked me to see that many in one spot along with scared me....

I'm sure there's just as many Detroits and Cats out there that break too, I was just wondering if there was anything I could do maintance wise to stay ahead of that and if there was a better year then another.....as far as power 450 would be plenty, I am more interested in fuel mileage......
 
#4 ·
there very good engines. change your oil when its time, and check your fluids youll be ok. as isxpower said you might have some egr valve problems, as well as egr cooler failures, as with every engine has there own quirks.
those engines with holes in the block could be due to emission law trades. We have that alot over here in Cali. Fleet trades in older trucks under the grant here, govt. knocks a hole in the block so the engine cant be "operational". engines are sold in other countries and the hole is welded back up and its back running again.
 
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#5 ·
Hey Canucktrucks, good instinct man, I also believe there is some problem with mains and rods. I can only guess on circumstances which affects those ISXes with holes in them - but I saw few and have heard about this enough times and from few different sources... There is something wrong with SOME ISX-es which blows them. Not all of them, probably (my guess) some serie... bad shells maybe? (another guess).

Lately spoke with guys who work on them engines ALOT and they convinced me, that despite Cummins swearin that these should last million miles... they last up to 650,000 miles maximum, so they recommend checking them earlier. I was like "BS !!!", but they said they even had 2 customers really anal about their trucks (like they knew I am) and they were like me, calling them liars. Well, we all have them rolled now. Mine just started to go red at 550k. There is more to this in my case (block was a factor too), however I would definitely recommend checking used ISX bottom for sure.

Here goes my first question, is it possible, that real slow (mean undetected for some time) coolant leak (from infamous EGR-coolers) could be the cause?


By the way I'm new to the forum and love it :tada Good thing going on here :hump
 
#6 ·
Well you can come to IL,IA and I can walk you around well maintained ISX big hp too that all have ran way over 650,000,2 in the shop right now 1 with 889,000 and the other with 1.1 mil on the ticker with no bearings yet and I will put money on the line that we can overhaul both without issues when its time. PS the onw with 1.1 swallowed 5 gal off coolant at 200,000 miles due to cooler failure,evedently didnt hurt it a bit!!!!!!!!:wedgie
 
#8 ·
Like CumminsISXpower is saying the ISX is a very good engine. It does not like contamination though poor repair practices will cause the problems. I have seen many cm870 ISXs go through the shop with near or over 1million miles with only minor problems.

the cm570 engine did have problems with going over 500k but there are very few of those engine on the road that have not already had the bottom end touched.
 
#10 ·
Like CumminsISXpower is saying the ISX is a very good engine. It does not like contamination though poor repair practices will cause the problems. I have seen many cm870 ISXs go through the shop with near or over 1million miles with only minor problems.

the cm570 engine did have problems with going over 500k but there are very few of those engine on the road that have not already had the bottom end touched.
Is there anything special about ISX that would make it more sensitive for contamination than other engines?
 
#9 ·
#13 ·
CM 870 and 570 are different phases of cummins electronic controls,the 570 was a SIG and the 870 are the EGR 03-04 emissions,CM871 is 07 emissions and CM2250 is 2010 emissions. EGR valve is abour 700$,and a cooler is about 1100.00,thats just parts no labor obviously.
 
#14 ·
I have a truck in the shop right now, 03 with 650,000 miles and it has spun almost all of the bearings. Was full of oil as well. After we pulled the engine, I noticed that the egr cooler has been changed. I would be willing to bet that the bearings werent touched and the cooler was changed out. I like the engines, havent been able to do a whole lot to one yet, but I will say parts are very very very expensive. If you are concerned with the price of parts, I would stay away and buy a detroit first.
 
#17 ·
Most bearing failures come from improper repair such as resealing the oil cooler,people use abrasives and do not plug the hole,trouble will be coming shortly after that.



I dont agree with the parts cost,compare Cummins parts to CAT parts cost and let me know what you come up with!!LOL



As far as Detroit we run Series 60s they are great engines,you get into the 14L.........................LOOK OUT..................you can look up my thread thats titled 14L Detroit issues again!!;)
 
#21 ·
I still dont agree with the price thing but to eack his own! As far as the 14L tou can give me a call and I will tell ya how I feel look up my thread,and we change oil at 10,000 miles Mobil Delvac 1300 super,oil samples every other change,coolant in the oil as we speak for the 4 th time, overhauled twice in 400,000 miles somethings wrong!
 
#22 ·
I know these engines are not even remotely close but.....My wife has a 2006 Jeep Liberty diesel. I was able to obtain a modification that slices in to the main wiring harness, this closes off the EGR valve and tells the computer that everything is functioning properly with the EGR valve (no check engine light), when in fact it's closed and not working at all.

You would think that someone out there would have something available for engines like the ISX? If there was one available for my ISC 8.3L, I would be all over it.
 
#24 ·
if you are doing this yourself it is a fairly big job. drain coolant remove turbo and egr cooler remove oil cooler housing. plug oil passages in block to clean gasket. clean cooler(s) and pressurize and submerge in water to confirm oil cooler is causing problem. reassemble. now the fun part get 1-2 gals fleetguard coolant restore for flushing oil out of cooling system follow instructions on bottle could take 4+ hours to get it clean! if it is a volvo might as well replace surge tank it will never get clean. could get by with flushing once if there is not much oil in the system.

This is one of those repairs that just plain suck!
 
#25 ·
:whs except my experience tells me its not worth putting psi to and submerging,we have a hot tank at work but its so hard to mimic the same envirnment that the cooler runs in,if you got it apart change them!!! Unless you want to buy another engine,plug the oil holes!!!
 
#27 ·
just need to be careful I have seen a prorous oil cooler housing/filter head cause oil in coolant also seen the gaskets that seal the element leak too.

wish I still had the pic I took of the worst oil cooler failure i have ever seen. took the cap off the surge tank and a turd came out:haha when the cooler housing was removed the stuff stay in the block. had to put air pressure to the system to get some of the coolant oil mix out there was not a drop of coolant in it, it was all a pile of gray crap. took over 8 hours to clean that mess up:throwup
 
#30 ·
ok started my oil cooler change today everything going smooth easier than i thought so far. does anybody know where the oil temp sending unit is ?? AND why doesnt cummins include the oil cooler gskts with OIL COOLER had to buy them sepratley i am also changing oil thermostat , i think i caught in early cause only a small amount of oil in coolant maybe a half cup so far thanks for all info. ISX 500 HP 2005
 
#32 ·
thanks burninoil got it back together today seemed pretty easy put new oil temp thermostat in while apart, in flush mode tomorrow. i am used to ntc,big cam 4 , and n-14 engines .they are a bit more cramped, this had a lot of room international 9900i series. first isx engine i've worked on, seems like a nice engine.egr system is interesting
 
#37 ·
ISX engines

Well here is my 2 cents have read your post and can give you a little insite on the newer ISX engines. Back in 2008 they company I work for purchased 20 new Pete's with 425 HP engines to date we have very little issue with the engines. The most commons issues that I have seen so far is some EGR cooler issues and a few EGR VLV issues. But other than that nothing major. Not like the ISM engines and M11 engines. We faithfully Service our trucks every 7500 and every 15000 miles. This is the main factor in maintaining a truck as long as your maintenance schedules are kept up with you will find that the truck will get you a 1000000 or better. But that all depends on the person maintaining the truck. I can tell you the ISX is very dependable. We run 24 7 365 a year. The trucks have hardly any down time so if your looking for a dependable motor ISX is the way to go. But also keep this in mind any engine can last you a life time as long as you maintain it properly.
 
#38 ·
ISX Head gasket problems

I am finding quite a few ISX engines with blown head gaskets. I went to 4 shops in the Somerset, PA. area, all of which have had ISX engines with blown head gaskets due to sunken liners. Cummins has no repair other than a new engine, which cost $25,000 & up, plus labor to replace engine & to put your engine back together for returning for core credit. I can repair them, in your truck, for $1,200 plus travel time. It is a permanent repair that you do not have to worry about. I have successfully repaired 5 of them in the past couple of months. My repair is the same as Cat uses for C10-11-12-13, & Cummins uses for L10 & M11. They just do not have the machine tool & the shims for the ISX yet.
 
#39 ·
Ok here is another post for the ISX engines don't know if to many people are aware of it or have seen it. But I have seen in the past several weeks I've had 5 new ISX trucks come in with cracked rocker housings.This seems to be an issue that Cummins has acknowledged and they are working hard to fix the issue.So from previous post about seeing ISX engines in the junk yards with holes in the blocks this seems to the issue with the bigger block ISX engines. So Cummins has identified the issue not it is just a matter of time to get it corrected.
 
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