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Need new manifold?

27K views 95 replies 23 participants last post by  cow dog 
#1 ·
I have a 2006 379 with a mxs 625hp. Ever since new the slip joints on each side of the exaust manifold leak about 2 days after putting new packing around them. Changed close to 10 times now. Its always the front section leaking and center section was replaced by cat for broken turbo bolts. What I want to know is if the PDI manifold is worth it as in any performance gains and what exhaust gaskets to use C12 I read somewhere and is it safe to not have the sleeves. Any help will be great as I am tired of a temp. fix that cat wont stand up for.
 
#2 ·
If the slip joints have leaked since new, the manifold should have been replaced under warranty?? The packing is not to stop leaks, it to catch oil slobler from leaking down the side of the block. If the engine is stilll under ESC warranty, the manifold is covered.

I have heard good things about the pdi manifold, I would spend the money on that manifold over a replacment Cat manifold if its not covered under warranty.

The CAT manifolds are made in china, that may be why they are falling sooner. ( the manifold has CAT molded in to it but the machined surface has "made in china" stamped in blue ink!!!)
 
#11 ·
PDI's manifold will flow 15% better than a stock E model manifold on a flow bench. The manifold Pittsburgh Power sells is a PDI with the PDI logo's removed ported and ceramic coated by Full Tilt Performance. The port work isn't done properly and actually hurts flow over the stock PDI manifold because it has more turbulence inside it. The best flowing combination without going to a B model manifold is a PDI thats been extrude honed, but they are $1850 plus shipping. I wouldn't use a B model manifold until power levels go above 800Hp, otherwise you wil have alot of turbo lag. I personaly run sleeves in my motor and I'm pushing over 1100 hp to the tires with a C-18 700hp military truck manifold.
 
#12 ·
I wouldn't use a B model manifold until power levels go above 800Hp, otherwise you wil have alot of turbo lag.
Raising the fuel pressure helps eliminate that. :) I shimmed the pump on my C15, and the lag is virtually all gone. Turbo lights as fast as our ISX does. Maybe better. Turbo used to be a turd til I did that. Running 102psi now. :wiggle
 
#14 ·
I guess some of us have had good luck with the sleeves. The older 2 piece gasket and sleeve design, caused me a few problems. But I have used the new one piece design in all of my trucks for several years without a single problem. As I type this though, I am knocking on top of the old gourd!!!
 
#16 ·
I have been through the "turbo eating a sleeve" ordeal. I figured it was just better to take them all out and not worry about it anymore. Any you know what.....it's been about 2 years now ....and no sleeve problems at all. :woot:
 
#20 ·
Let me clarify my post

A flow increase on the flow bench may not produce the best power increase if turbulence rises due to the port work. My point is if you are going to spend the extra money for work on the manifold..........spend it for the best power gain.......extrude honing the manifold produces the best results for power not porting.......you can't port the short side radius of the inside of the manifold from each cylinder port........this is where the turbulence is created......no tools will fit in this area of the manifold to do this.
 
#23 ·
We're comparing apples and oranges again...

Manifold flow has been argued since hot rodding became popular in the 1940's. There are no definite absolutes..

But anyway, it's amazing how the manifold leaks disappear when you have a decent flowing turbo exhaust housing. Fuel mileage increases as well with more power and less heat, all a result of LOWER drive pressure. Food for thought..

I might not agree agree with everybody on exhaust flow but one thing is for sure, if you open up the outlet end of the channel you're going to have less opposition getting the gas out.

When anyone puts information on here it seems the discussion turns to knocking the poster instead of providing enough information so we can judge for ourselves.

I had one of the first Cat Pitts boxes on my 98 3406E before PDI products were available. But, if I had it to do over again I'd go with PDI and get nearer to optimum timing. Mr. Haney provides good info here and although I don't always completely agree I consider everything he puts on here as respectable information..
 
#27 ·
Manifold flow has been argued since hot rodding became popular in the 1940's. There are no definite absolutes..

But anyway, it's amazing how the manifold leaks disappear when you have a decent flowing turbo exhaust housing. Fuel mileage increases as well with more power and less heat, all a result of LOWER drive pressure. Food for thought..

I might not agree agree with everybody on exhaust flow but one thing is for sure, if you open up the outlet end of the channel you're going to have less opposition getting the gas out.

When anyone puts information on here it seems the discussion turns to knocking the poster instead of providing enough information so we can judge for ourselves.

I had one of the first Cat Pitts boxes on my 98 3406E before PDI products were available. But, if I had it to do over again I'd go with PDI and get nearer to optimum timing. Mr. Haney provides good info here and although I don't always completely agree I consider everything he puts on here as respectable information..
:thumbsup well said...
 
#25 ·
Highest flow seldom equals best power( ie. cylinder heads ) if the new guy had any real flow bench experience he would already know this. posting numbers means nothing . now. if the NG has some hands on experience with this manifold in high HP applications then maybe he will share that info with the board. WELL ???
 
#29 ·
You are right, High Flow doesn't create power. Thats what Mr. Haney doesn't get. You need to find the right flow and air velocity to create power and fuel mileage increase. Thats extrude hone doesn't work. they don't Contentrate in one area they only lower velocity, Your turbo isn't going to spool up correctly.
 
#43 ·
Ive tried dealing with Bruce...all he wanted to do was push his magic box even though the ACERTs need the timing advanced. Since the 3 talks I have had with him I will never run any of his products again. Personally I feel honored to deal with a man like Mr. Haney that has put 1100+ to the wheels and runs the motor everday. Also with mistakes come knowledge and few people will even admite to making a mistake...Bruce won't, but Haney will. That alone speaks wonders. I have had some interesting talks with Mr Haney on the phone over the manifold issue and I definetly agree with him once I wrapped my head around all the factors and issues. To be honest I can't wait to see Bruce's face when I put down 900+ RWHP with a fairly stock ACERT considering he said it can't be done with out his magic box.
 
#44 ·
Damn the newbies just keep getting mouthier and mouthier, you all need to do some research on here and start thinking about who your going to start an argument with, it just makes you look bad when you get into it with a select few people.

IMO haney is the only guy on here that has taken the sales pitch out of tryng to find good info about building a high horsepower electronic CAT.

The whole ploy that those salesmen rely on are the people who dont work on there own trucks, they look down on ya if you call and try to tell them what you want.
 
#47 ·
this Is getting off track, and it did a long time ago.

I jumped Mr. Haney because his facts were wrong and as he is a PDI dealer it seamed that all he was doing was down giving false info to deture people from Full Tilts Manifold just to sell his own.

Its proven on the trucks, A Stock Manifold sucks, a PDI manifold plain does 15% or so better then a stock and helps with Power and MPG. But time after time The Full Tilt Port and Polished Manifold Gives more Horse Power and More Fuel Mileage Gain.

I'm not desputing Mr. Haneys knowledge in engines but I am the info he had there.

When truckers have shown it, and independent testing by people like Allan Lockheed, Son and inheritor of Lockheed Aircraft Company(Now Lockheed Martin), and even Dave's Diesel in Edmonton Canada.

For those of you that play down the Ceramic Coating, Allan Lockheed and engineers can say it best by saying that heat is energy and the more energy you can keep in the manifold, and not under your hood, and when you can keep that heat(Energy) moving through the exhaust you can get more heat coming into the manifold. To put it simple; The more energy that can get out, the more energy can get in.
and for someone that doesn't get what ceramic coating does. It is a thermal barrier, Keeping heat in. I've seen my underhood temp drop by 300 degrees.
 
#48 ·
You haven't caught the jest of what I've said.........Jerry Ray worked for Pittsburgh Power, while he worked for them he took a stock C-15 manifold a stock PDI manifold and a PDI manifold done by Full Tilt to Extrude hone for flow testing..........Bruce sells Full Tilt manifolds as his own.......which are actually PDI manifolds with the PDI logo machined off. These manifolds the PP sells are actually Full Tilts manifold.

So Jerry Ray an employee of Pittsburgh Power takes all these manifolds to Extrude Hone for testing.

A stock PDI manifold flows 15% better than the CAT C-15

The Full Tilt manifold flows 3% more than the Stock PDI manifold.........but has high turbulence inside it compared to the stock PDI manifold

The stock PDI manifold was then extrude honed and compared to the others.....flow was the same as the Full Tilt manifold , but turbulence inside of the manifold was down by a considerable amount.

Do you think turbulence would have any effect of velocity? Would velocity have any effect on driving the turbo?

Jerry Ray wanted Bruce to start buying stock PDI manifolds and selling them as PP manifolds after extrude honing them...........the higher being decided that the ceramic coating was pretty and felt that he could sell pretty. So PP still sells a Full Tilt manifold as their own. Which is a PDI manifold ported and ceramic coated.
 
#49 ·
I see some follies here. As I understand Jerry Ray worked for Antrims... He was hired by PDI. I know you work through Jerry Ray. I have No problem with PDI or Jerry Ray.

A Full Tilt Manifold flows 10% More CFM(Cubic Feet per minute) of air than a Stock PDI manifold. And that is With out opening the ports any more, just reshaping the inside. The whole point of what Full Tilt does was decrease turbulence and increase air velocity. Unless some how Engineers screwed up and still seem to come out with a better product for Power and Mileage. How can they Do this with more turbulence? They can't. The Full tilts velocity is faster then the PDI stock manifolds. And if you extrude honed it, you are just opening it up wider all the way through and decreasing the velocity. I bet if you tried a Full tilt manifold on your truck for a while you would get more horsepower and better fuel mileage.
 
#51 · (Edited)
Mr. Haney, ynot, Lowboy, SmokinCat,DD14,pullingtrucker, 379Longhood. Some of the most respected,knowledgable names in the forum and you keep throwing your BS at them. Just as Cody said, you will never have any respect...
There is a Cat shop in the Buffalo area, you would be a perfect fit there.
I am sorry to say this, but maybe this is a good time for some moderator action???
 
#55 · (Edited)
Mr. Haney, ynot, Lowboy, SmokinCat,DD14,pullingtrucker, 379Longhood. Some of the most respected,knowledgable names in the forum and you keep throwing your BS at them.
Thank you for including me...but I'm just learning more and more from the others you mentioned and applying it. I'm no where near as knowledgeable as these men when it comes to CAT and general diesel knowledge. Heck I bet Mr Haney and ynot have forgot more about CAT engines while sitting on the toilet than I can ever remember.:roflol: To be honest I wish I had at least 2 days to spend with each one of the other guys so I could pick their brains and learn even more from what works the best out here in the real world. There are so many questions and so little time.
 
#56 ·
Like Pulling trucker said I too feel highly honored to be in the same sentence
And thanks David for being the voice of reason
Mr Haney now we see why we call you Mister,. Calm and cool through the whole show and again AMAZING numbers from a working truck 1174 was it??
Somebody correct me but isn't that about 1400 and change at the clutch??
 
#57 ·
Figuring a 15% drivetrain loss I got 1347.8 flywheel HP. Thats about 3.5 times what the majority of all the other trucks are at...and many are getting worse MPG.
 
#60 ·
Thanks guys.........I've learned awhile ago it doesn't really pay to fight. I also have learned that with a good debate you may see an idea that you've overlooked .......I've had a few times where this has happened .........and the quest for power continues on

Tony I'm a goods friend of JR and have know him before he stopped trucking to be a pitchman. He's a die-hard power freak and has one awesome KTA street class pulling truck, along with an ole KW with a 1000+ hp KTTA work truck. I've been workin' on him awhile now, getting him to see yellow instead of beige. He's driven my truck and was amazed by it's power and how smooth the motor ran under power.

The monster produced 11,221 Ft/Lb of torque @ 1800RPM at the tires with 3.55 rear gear ratio in direct in the transmission = 3640 Ft/Lbs at the flywheel. I was only after the Hp number and didn't allow them to pull it down any lower in the RPM band
 
#62 ·
I only spoke with him 5 or 6 times, trying to educate him on spray patterns and pop pressures of different nozzles vs. bowl design and swirl. Good guy, knows much, and listens (ya, I know). Being you're so close to him, tell him to keep my number and feel free to call if he if he needs more insite to "old iron". Only prob would be his attachment to Bruce. He has some completely off the wall opinions on the yellow workings... As for your dyno run, right on bro. I'll pull mine down to 100 above trans shutter and back it down. Took us both to long (and $) to build this stuff. You the man bud!!!!!!! :rock
 
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