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Old 02-05-2011, 01:40 PM   #1
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ford 6.0 are the rumours true?

Hey all

I am new to the diesel world and I am looking at a could ford f250's all with the 6.0 diesel in them. I am wondering if what I have herd is true or if it is just because people do research before they start to tune their trucks and keep on up proper maintenance with them.

Anyone with any personal info that can help me out please let me know. I would go for the 2008 but my insurance will cost more a month then the truck lol.

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Old 02-05-2011, 03:44 PM   #2
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well what is it that you heard?
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:06 PM   #3
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The 6.0L is a decent, powerful engine if LEFT ALONE. If you feel the need to add power (tuner, CAI etc), get something else. The 6.0L, IMO is not mod-friendly. Good maintenance and stock trucks serve their owners very well.
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:45 PM   #4
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This is somthing i found on the net the 6.0 can be a verry realible motor and produce grat power with a few simple mods and keeping up with good maintance.



The 6.0 liter Power Stroke is a great diesel, despite a bundle of issues that plagued many of the early engines. The 6.0 is powerful, durable, & reliable. There are more than enough satisfied 6.0L owners to back those statements up. However, some of the 6.0L components are prone to problems, especially when maintenance is neglected or the performance is increased by means of aftermarket components.

6.0L Power Stroke TTY Head Bolts
The 6.0L Power Stroke uses Torque to yield (TTY) head bolts to secure the cylinder heads. The stock TTY head bolts do a mediocre job of equalizing the clamping force of the head bolts. The head bolts are also much more prone to stretching than head studs, and under high cylinder pressures are prone to fail. For a 6.0L that remains completely stock, the TTY head bolts are suitable. However, for modified engines or engines that are under constant load, the stock head bolts are a weak link in the 6.0L. Additionally, the EGR system can cause high coolant temperatures or turbo overboost situations. High coolant temperatures may cause slight warping of the cylinder heads, which can lead to head bolt failures. Too much turbo boost can result in increased cylinder pressures and cause the TTY bolts to stretch. This causes blow head gaskets.
6.0L Power Stroke EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)
The EGR coolers on the 6.0 liter Power Stroke are prone to clogging due to oil & soot build up, which can cause them fail. A failed EGR cooler may contribute to high coolant temperatures of coolant loss. EGR valves are also notorious for failing due to soot build up, which can lead to over-boosting of the turbocharger. To prevent this, the EGR valve should be cleaned routinely. Excessive idling and poor fuel quality can clog the EGR valve rapidly. The efficiency of a diesel engine is reduced at idle due to low combustion temperatures, resulting in increased particulate production. Ford recommends a minimum diesel fuel cetane level of 45 for maximum quality. Motorcraft manufactures a fuel additive for the Power Stroke which is recommended and verified safe by Ford Motor Company. EGR valve issues are not necessarily a design flaw, but rather due to the nature of a diesel engine. EGR cooler issues are related to inadequate design. 2004+ EGR coolers are more prone to failure. 2003 coolers are round, while 2004+ EGR coolers are square (and longer than the 2003 cooler).

6.0L Power Stroke Turbocharger
The 6.0L Power Stroke is equipped with a variable geometry turbocharger (VGT). The 6.0L turbocharger is very efficient & provides quick spooling with plenty of airflow through peak RPM. However, the vanes of the VGT that control the displacement of the turbo are prone to sticking from soot build up. If the vanes stick, performance will be sacrificed and the engine may experience a lot of turbo lag. The vanes can often by cleared by operating at WOT for a short period of time, spinning the turbine to a high enough RPM to free the vanes of soot. Additionally, the oil drain tube on early 6.0L Power Strokes is restrictive and can lead to turbocharger failure in some rare situations.

6.0L Oil Cooler Failure
Residual sand not removed during the casting process can clog the coolant side of the oil cooler. Old or sludgy oil can clog the oil side of the cooler. Failure can result in oil being introduced into the cooling system, or coolant overheating, which may result in serious engine damage. Aftermarket coolant filters may prevent particulate from clogging the coolant side of the cooler. Using proper engine oil and changing the oil at the recommended oil change intervals can also prevent failures. Aftermarket bypass oil filters may also prevent problems. Ford also recommends changing the engine coolant at the recommended intervals. Failure of the oil cooler has been related to head gasket failures.

Model Year 2004 6.0L Power Stroke Changes
The following changes affect engines manufactured after September 29, 2003.
• Revised EGR cooler design. 2004-2007 EGR cooler is longer and a square design replaces the circular cooler found on 2003 engines.
• New “wavy” high pressure oil rail and delivery system. Increases volume of high pressure oil system.
• Improved casting of the upper oil pan increases strength.
• Upgraded camshaft design featuring different lobe separation angle, lobe lift and duration characteristics. Improves combustion efficiency, reducing emissions. 2004+ camshaft should not be used in 2003 model engines.
• Modified piston bowl design for improved emissions reduction. Shorter glow plugs required. 2004+ glow plugs not compatible in 2003 engines; piston contact and destruction can result. Larger water pump impeller to increase coolant flow and combat high temperatures resulting from the EGR cooler. (Impeller increased from 90mm to 100mm).
• FICM receives larger vibration dampers to eliminate failure caused by engine harmonics.
• New turbocharger turbine wheel with 3 additional fins to reduce noise caused by the turbo.
• Injector plungers coated with DTC (diamond like carbone) to increase injector life.
• ICP sensor relocated to valve cover. Sensor can be removed/replaced without removing valve cover.



2005 Model Year 6.0L Power Stroke Changes
• New EGR valve with shaft seal reduces leaking of exhaust gases. Not interchangeable with 2003/2004 model year engines. Diverter plates incorporated into the intake manifold to distribute exhaust gases equally between banks.
• EGR throttle plate removed. Scoop added in exhaust up pipe to direct exhaust flow into the EBR system. Throttle plate deemed redundant.
• Updated turbocharger shaft bearings for improved turbo longevity and reduced shaft play.
• New HPOP (high pressure oil pump) design. Flow is comparable to previous HPOP. Improved oil pressure and pump response at low engine speeds. Improved pump longevity.
• New front engine cover with different coolant passage locations. Designed to make room for new power steering pump design. Not interchangeable with 2003/2004 model 6.0L Power Strokes.
Frequently Asked Questions about the 6.0L Power Stroke
Frequently Asked Questions about the 6.0L Power Stroke

The International built 6.0L Power Stroke is often regarded as the lemon of the diesel industry. Though it's true that many problems were associated with these engines, the problems have been glorified. Furthermore, most of the issues can be directly related to how the engines are treated (driving habits, maintenance neglect, etc). Understanding the problems, behavior, and nature of the 6.0L Power Stroke is important for owners who want to enjoy the performance and reliability of their hard working 6.0L for hundreds of thousands of miles.
Is the 6.0L Power Stroke a Bad Engine?
The 6.0L is not a bad engine. Quite the opposite, the performance that the 6.0L achieves with its relatively small size is impressive. The engine is sufficiently strong and reliable at its intended power levels. The problems associated with the 6.0L have very little to do with the engine itself, but rather the design of the emissions components. Properly maintained, the 6.0L provides reliability, performance, and fuel economy.
Should I avoid the 6.0L Power Stroke?
If you want a diesel that can run flawlessly without proper maintenance at the recommended intervals, then the 6.0L is probably not for you. The 6.0L Power Stroke is very sensitive to neglect, and owners who extend the service intervals of their engine are the most likely to experience problems. If you are prepared to stay current on the engines maintenance, there is no reason to avoid the 6.0L Power Stroke. If you are in the market to "hot rod" your diesel, the 6.0L can be adequately equipped to handle massive performance levels with a set of performance head studs and an upgraded EGR system.
Why was the 6.0L Power Stroke Phased out?
The 6.0L Power Stroke was replaced with the 6.4L due to increased emissions regulations. The 6.4L is able to meet stricter emissions for several reasons, including:
- Diesel particulate filter to capture particulate matter.
- High pressure common rail injection for increased combustion efficiency.
- Upgraded and adequately sized EGR system, not prone to failure like 6.0L EGR components.
The 6.4L was able to exceed emissions regulations and stay competitive with the performance of Cummins and Duramax engines.
What are the Advantages of the 6.0L Power Stroke?
- Impressive fuel economy. 16-18 mpg combined and 19-20 mpg highway mileage is not uncommon.
- VGT provides quick turbo spool times for off-idle performance.
- Torque output is steady over a broad power range, making 6.0L equipped trucks great tow rigs and work trucks.
What are the Disadvantages of the 6.0L Power Stroke?
- Sensitive to neglect. Injection system is sensitive to water contamination and poor fuel quality.
- EGR cooler/valve clogging due to soot build up can occur and cause engine problems.
- TTY head bolts do not provide adequate clamping force for diesels with increased power output (head studs can remedy this).
- Many engines repairs require the cab to be removed (although Ford has designed the Super Duty so that this is not as complex as it may seem).
Where is the serial number located on the 6.0L Power Stroke?
The serial number is located on the left rear corner of the crank case. It should start with a 6.0. The last 7 digits represent the sequential build number of the engine.
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I think it is great that Cummings service trucks are f-550 with 6.0 and 6.4. They must know somthing?

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Old 02-05-2011, 09:12 PM   #5
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I have 135,000 miles on my 6.0 and love it. Had the head gasket issue, but have since fixed it with arp head studs and egr delete. Have been tuned since about 65,000 miles and drive the truck like i stole it most of the time. I tow 11k lbs a lot and have no complaints. If you get a 6.0, delete the EGR and install head studs, get a SCT with the type of tune that fits your needs, and get an exhaust and drive the truck like it should be driven. In all, I have SCT with custom tunes, 0-ringed heads, intake, exhaust, and fuel system. Truck runs great and still get around 16 mpg with a 5.5" lift on 36x15.5 tires. Wouldn't trade the truck in for a new one or another brand.
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:23 PM   #6
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I wonder what it is that he uhmmm herd ..........
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_G View Post
The 6.0L is a decent, powerful engine if LEFT ALONE. If you feel the need to add power (tuner, CAI etc), get something else. The 6.0L, IMO is not mod-friendly. Good maintenance and stock trucks serve their owners very well.
John,

I would have to take issue with your statement based on my fleet experience with a 2005 (125K) and a 2006 (just over 100K) over the last three years.

Between the two of them here's the repairs:

12 injectors

4 FICMs

1 EGR valve

1 turbo

1 fuel tank lining delaminated, havent' yet had to replace any more injectors but expect to after finding that.

3 oil coolers

3 EGR coolers (and yes, that problem has been remedied, but only on one of them so far - the 2005).

Not my favorite motor by a long shot

prt
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Old 02-05-2011, 11:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by plainredtruck View Post
John,

I would have to take issue with your statement based on my fleet experience with a 2005 (125K) and a 2006 (just over 100K) over the last three years.

Between the two of them here's the repairs:

12 injectors

4 FICMs

1 EGR valve

1 turbo

1 fuel tank lining delaminated, havent' yet had to replace any more injectors but expect to after finding that.

3 oil coolers

3 EGR coolers (and yes, that problem has been remedied, but only on one of them so far - the 2005).

Not my favorite motor by a long shot

prt
Please don't take this the wrong way, but clearly there are two camps.

Do you think that the motor could be just fine and that it was the fuel tank as the original issue (in at least one of your trucks)? ...

Delamination in fuel tank = restricted filters and reduced fuel pressure = ruined injectors = bad injectors (which means lots of carbon) = bad EGR valve and bad turbo. If they are both chassis can trucks, maybe the one that hasn't delaminated is actually in the process of it?

FICM failures are HIGHLY related to poor battery and alternator health. Are you saying you were meticulous at maintaining this charging/starting system? Most folks aren't and this is an area that many fleets do not monitor (routine load tests, etc).

Do you have coolant filters? I realize Ford said that the coolant was a 90k (IIRC) mile coolant, but we all know now that it is at best a 50k coolant. If the system is flushed at this interval and a coolant filter is installed, many people are having success w/ the Gold coolant (I know quite a few folks w/ 180k+ miles on their vehicle and no oil cooler / EGR cooler failures).

I just have trouble believing that the ones of us w/ reliable trucks just got incredibly lucky.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Please don't take this the wrong way, but clearly there are two camps.

Do you think that the motor could be just fine and that it was the fuel tank as the original issue (in at least one of your trucks)? ...

Delamination in fuel tank = restricted filters and reduced fuel pressure = ruined injectors = bad injectors (which means lots of carbon) = bad EGR valve and bad turbo. If they are both chassis can trucks, maybe the one that hasn't delaminated is actually in the process of it?

FICM failures are HIGHLY related to poor battery and alternator health. Are you saying you were meticulous at maintaining this charging/starting system? Most folks aren't and this is an area that many fleets do not monitor (routine load tests, etc).

Do you have coolant filters? I realize Ford said that the coolant was a 90k (IIRC) mile coolant, but we all know now that it is at best a 50k coolant. If the system is flushed at this interval and a coolant filter is installed, many people are having success w/ the Gold coolant (I know quite a few folks w/ 180k+ miles on their vehicle and no oil cooler / EGR cooler failures).

I just have trouble believing that the ones of us w/ reliable trucks just got incredibly lucky.
I would agree with basic maintance most of these issues could have been prevented. The ford gold coolant is crap and if you do not put a coolant filter on or get rid of it in all and use a good ELC cat-1 rated you will continue to have oil cooler failers the ford coolant can't handel the head that the motor produses. And yes if you are going through FICM you defentley have a voltage issue if you try to start the 6.0 with a low or dead battery you are asking to replace them. And for the injectors the fuel and oil is a must to be cleaned in fleet truck most people do not change the oil and fuel filters like they should and if they do they usually do not use a motorcraft filter motorcraft filters are a must for the 6.0 becuse all the other brands do not filter or hold up like they need to. Most 6.0 can be a verry good truck if you keep up basic maintince and install a coolant filter or better flush the ford gold crap out and put in a good ELC cat-1 coolant what the motor was designed to run on from international.
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I think it is great that Cummings service trucks are f-550 with 6.0 and 6.4. They must know somthing?

2006 F-250 lariat FX4

4" turbo back MBRP stainless steel exhaust cat delete
Airaide intake
Homemade coolant filter
Custom oil bypass filter
Quad pillar gauges EOT, ECT, Fuel pressure, and EGT
RCD EGR kit with new up pipe
Blue Ford fuel spring went form 45psi to 68psi part number 3C3Z-9T517-AG
Rancho Rs9000 shocks with my ride controll
Homemade 3" lift
315x70x17 BFG AT's
SCT With custom Innovative tunes
Mobil ELC Cat-1 Coolant
2004 Turbo
Zoodad mod
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:53 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by bismic View Post
Please don't take this the wrong way, but clearly there are two camps.

Do you think that the motor could be just fine and that it was the fuel tank as the original issue (in at least one of your trucks)? ...

Delamination in fuel tank = restricted filters and reduced fuel pressure = ruined injectors = bad injectors (which means lots of carbon) = bad EGR valve and bad turbo. If they are both chassis can trucks, maybe the one that hasn't delaminated is actually in the process of it?

FICM failures are HIGHLY related to poor battery and alternator health. Are you saying you were meticulous at maintaining this charging/starting system? Most folks aren't and this is an area that many fleets do not monitor (routine load tests, etc).

Do you have coolant filters? I realize Ford said that the coolant was a 90k (IIRC) mile coolant, but we all know now that it is at best a 50k coolant. If the system is flushed at this interval and a coolant filter is installed, many people are having success w/ the Gold coolant (I know quite a few folks w/ 180k+ miles on their vehicle and no oil cooler / EGR cooler failures).

I just have trouble believing that the ones of us w/ reliable trucks just got incredibly lucky.
Yes to coolant filters on both trucks. But they were both flushed long before 90K (thanks to EGR cooler failure on both trucks). Both trucks were actually flushed 2x - one truck due to a dealership that insisted they had to drain the ELC I had another dealership put in and remove the coolant filter in order to keep in under warranty so they could replace items unrelated to the coolant.

Yes, we have been very attentive to battery issues. I did neglect to mention that one of the trucks went through 2 alternators. All that was from memory since I don't have the records in front of me at the house. There is more. Much more.

The truck with the most problems is the one without the tank lining delaminating. The one that just cleared 100K has had almost everything covered under warranty. It did have the rearend go out on it, which was serviced regularly and wasn't repaired under warranty.

These are both F-450's and I know they get driven hard, but when I compare service records with other fleet managers in my area as well as confer with the dealership where warranty work was completed and my non-dealership repair shop the 6.0's have more problems among fleet vehicles than all the others combined.

It's not even my money I'm spending on the company trucks, but I certainly would rather these two were not part of the fleet.

We have Duramaxes with no issues (up to and over 100K miles - no repairs at all). We have 7.3's with 300K + with normal repairs but not nearly as expensive nor time consuming as the 6.0's. The same crews that drive these 6.0 trucks stretched their pre-99 7.3's to 400K+ in both cases and went through a single turbo and a single transmission between the two of them before we sold them.

You can't begin to convince me that there aren't better choices for a used truck. I wouldn't steer my worst enemy toward a 6.0 so why would I tell the OP that he should choose one?

prt
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