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Old 01-01-2009, 03:09 PM   #1
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C15 water pump leak

Hey guys. Got a little problem.

On my MBN C15, I have a small coolant leak when the air temps get ~15* and colder. Running the truck, or having the block heater plugged in, keeps it warm enough it won't leak. But, when cold and unplugged, it will.

It is seeping out around the water pump (not any of the hoses, just where it bolts up), above the engine oil cooler.

How hard is it to remove? Looks like it comes off of the rear of the front gearcase? Is it just an o-ring to seal things up?

And, with ~430k miles, would I be smart to replace the water pump as a PM item yet? The w/p on our ISX took a crap at ~500k. Don't need to be taking chances hauling livestock, and have it fail with a load on. Last time I was lucky and had no load on the wagon. Got to change it in a parking lot with hand tools. :

TIA.
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'92 W250, LE, CC, CTD w/ tweaked pump (SOLD)


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Old 01-01-2009, 04:13 PM   #2
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Just pull the oil cooler and replace to seals and you will have that leak repair. glenn
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:19 PM   #3
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If it's leaking near where it bolts to the gear housing, it's probably coming out the weep hole which means replacing the pump.
If it's leaking on the back side of the pump where it connects to the cooler or what have you, then it should just be o-rings.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoeller View Post
Hey guys. Got a little problem.

On my MBN C15, I have a small coolant leak when the air temps get ~15* and colder. Running the truck, or having the block heater plugged in, keeps it warm enough it won't leak. But, when cold and unplugged, it will.

It is seeping out around the water pump (not any of the hoses, just where it bolts up), above the engine oil cooler.

How hard is it to remove? Looks like it comes off of the rear of the front gearcase? Is it just an o-ring to seal things up?

And, with ~430k miles, would I be smart to replace the water pump as a PM item yet? The w/p on our ISX took a crap at ~500k. Don't need to be taking chances hauling livestock, and have it fail with a load on. Last time I was lucky and had no load on the wagon. Got to change it in a parking lot with hand tools. :

TIA.
You WON'T want to do it in a parking lot, for real. Give one thing a try first tho. Whether you can see it or not, just tighten the upper rad hose clamp and see what happens. It's an infamously hidden leak that runs down the backside of the w/pump, looking like anything but the pump that is leaking.

If it's the pump, I'll do a quick write-up on R&I w/pump for ya (go buy yourself a rechargable 3/8" impact for a late Christmas present. You'll thank yourself for it if you do it outside. It's over two and a half hours if you do it by hand, not including dump and fill fluids. Bbbuuurrrrr)
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc2 View Post
If it's leaking near where it bolts to the gear housing, it's probably coming out the weep hole which means replacing the pump.
If it's leaking on the back side of the pump where it connects to the cooler or what have you, then it should just be o-rings.
I suppose it could maybe be the weep hole, but I've never had one leak there and stop when warm or running. Usually just piss all over the place, all of the time. Doesn't even drip warm or running. No visible traces of coolant in the oil, either.

The leak is above the oil cooler. It better not leak there where it bolts to the pump, I had to replace the oil cooler 2 weeks after we bought the truck in mid Sept. '07. It only did this once last winter, and I forgot about it, til now, when it started doing it again. Done it 2-3 times so far this winter.

I replaced the gaskets where it bolts to the water pump and the other to the block at the rear. New o-rings where the cooler bolts to the oil filter housing as well. All parts came from KW.
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'93 W350 CC, LE, 5spd, HTT modded H1C, 4" DE

Sold- '99 3500 Q/C, SO CTD, 4x4, 5spd.

Traded off- '97 3500 C/C, 4x4, CTD

'92 W250, LE, CC, CTD w/ tweaked pump (SOLD)


"Obama = Hoax and Chains"

If Obama is the answer, it must have been a stupid question.

Last edited by bmoeller; 01-01-2009 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynot View Post
You WON'T want to do it in a parking lot, for real. Give one thing a try first tho. Whether you can see it or not, just tighten the upper rad hose clamp and see what happens. It's an infamously hidden leak that runs down the backside of the w/pump, looking like anything but the pump that is leaking.

If it's the pump, I'll do a quick write-up on R&I w/pump for ya (go buy yourself a rechargable 3/8" impact for a late Christmas present. You'll thank yourself for it if you do it outside. It's over two and a half hours if you do it by hand, not including dump and fill fluids. Bbbuuurrrrr)
Tell me about it. The ISX SUCKED. The 2 short bolts behind the dampener were a bear to get at. Took for EVER to get the bolts run in an out with a wrench. Too much crap in the way. A W900 would've made it easier, since it would've been open open (no axle in the way).

I know I've had to tighten clamps before, but I can recheck them. Actually wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the hoses anyways. Some still have the factory paint on them.

I can get the truck in the heated shop, but I have to lower the door over the rear axles and put a big piece of cardboard between the drives to act as a wind block so the heater shuts off. Tractor is to long to put in shop with hood up. Only have 1' of room with the door down and hood shut.

I do have a 3/8" air-powered butterfly impact, though, and over 100' of air hose, if I had to do it outside. At home that is.

If you wouldn't mind writing up directions, I'd sure appreciate it. Doesn't look that bad, but any additional help to speed things up would be great.
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"Some people are educated beyond their intelligence."

'93 W350 CC, LE, 5spd, HTT modded H1C, 4" DE

Sold- '99 3500 Q/C, SO CTD, 4x4, 5spd.

Traded off- '97 3500 C/C, 4x4, CTD

'92 W250, LE, CC, CTD w/ tweaked pump (SOLD)


"Obama = Hoax and Chains"

If Obama is the answer, it must have been a stupid question.

Last edited by bmoeller; 01-01-2009 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoeller View Post
Tell me about it. The ISX SUCKED. The 2 short bolts behind the dampener were a bear to get at. Took for EVER to get the bolts run in an out with a wrench. Too much crap in the way. A W900 would've made it easier, since it would've been open open (no axle in the way).

I know I've had to tighten clamps before, but I can recheck them. Actually wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the hoses anyways. Some still have the factory paint on them.

I can get the truck in the heated shop, but I have to lower the door over the rear axles and put a big piece of cardboard between the drives to act as a wind block so the heater shuts off. Tractor is to long to put in shop with hood up. Only have 1' of room with the door down and hood shut.

I do have a 3/8" air-powered butterfly impact, though, and over 100' of air hose, if I had to do it outside. At home that is.

If you wouldn't mind writing up directions, I'd sure appreciate it. Doesn't look that bad, but any additional help to speed things up would be great.
Dude, you just kill me sometimes!!

K, off we go… 1) Drain coolant, and if you want to save a floor mess, put a wide pan under the axle and drop the plug directly under the oil cooler neck input. Smaller mess; bend a piece of cardboard 15" X 30" in a vee and wedge between the pan and front spring like a big funnel to your drain pan.

2) Remove T-stat housing... Remove clamp for upper hose and bungee the hose up out of the way. If it’s a Pete, remove the two 3/8” bottom bracket bolts and ½” SAE top threaded stud and yank the rad mount out the way. Yours has two stats, so you can remove the entire assy by loosening the three inner most bolts in the housing. It will all come off as one piece. If you can’t find which bolts they are (and they’re like ten feet long), open the water pump kit and get the grey gasket out with one big hole in the middle and two of the three mounting bolt holes being in the shape of a triangle. Hold it up to the housing and there’s your bolts to remove. Leave assy together, and just pop it off with the 1.5” shunt hose attached, but don’t forget to unhook the temp sender from the front of the housing going back to the connector under the turbo. For those of you with one T-stat, you hafta split the housings. Sorry.

3) Remove the alternator bracket stand only. One bolt in rear, three in front with a 3/8” spacer block behind it, and four into the steel riser block for the alt (from the bottom. Three with a gun, and the front inner one with a wrench [first]). The alternator adjuster bolt will hold all the stuff in place above your work space.

4) Remove lower rad hose clamp and go around it with a hose hook to free it from the hose. Now remove the other three bolts that hold the backing plate to the rear of the pump. Pull it straight out at about the 2:00 position (from year). Now you just have the pump.

5) Remove water pump by yankin the 8 bolts from the front that are closest to the outside (the other three short ones just hold the loom bracket for the Horton and the sound suppression garbage. Now is the time to rip all that plastic garbage out and toss it since you’re that close. If you do, you don’t need the short bolts in there anymore. They’re dead holes).

6) With pump facing gear side down on bench, floor, deckplate, dinner table, whatever, use two of the three 1.5” X 3/8” bolts that were in the backing plate and screw them in the two 3/8” dead holes. Screw in til you hit the pump, then go from bolt to bolt one turn at a time to pop it out of the back of the pump. If it’s eroded in the front at the taper facing the rotor, buy a new one (as that is where you build water pressure. The clearance between the backing plate and pump rotor. If it’s clean and flat, re-use it).

7) Clean and sand all components including inlet to oil cooler neck (the adapter face for the lower hose that the T-stat hose goes into is the worse, i.e. Scotchbrite sander is almost a must), wire wheel the o-ring bores, sand the face of the front cover (adapter plate) where the pump bolts to.

8) Lay new pump on floor (on two boards if need be. It’s a balance thing), grease the inside bore lip of the rear part where the rotor is, grease the oring you replaced on the backing plate, set it in place with two guide bolts if you want, then stand on it rocking side to side til it pops in flush.

9) Install new pump with new front o-ring and grease to hold in place, tighten all bolts, and reverse order for re-assembly.

When you drop the backing plate adapter back down its hole, get it in the lower hose before you install a bolt. Put in the other three bolts to tighten, but use a fourth guide bolt to align the hole that the alternator bracket goes to… Do not forget to run the wires behind the T-stat housing for the sender… No silicone or glue anywhere; just grease. Everything from there is fast and easy. No tricks, just time and A/F goo on your hands.

One more thing to start the barrage of controversy. The block, rad and housing are all completely drained if you dropped the plug on the bottom front of the cooler neck. I’ve read all that’s been said about all the different coolants, and having opened up and seen thousands of motors of every color with any number of miles, from liners to pump housings to cooler erosion checks, and probably mostly Cat, put green anything back in. ALL Ethylene Glycol A/F’s are compatible with ALL engines. The diesel/ gas/ N.G./ Propane A/F wars are long gone. Just read the bottles on any of them. Put in green anything (I like Peak and Prestone, as they are the color of my favorite Muskie lures ;-) with whatever water you choose at a 65%/35% blend (= -40*), then add four pints of 4 unit DCA charge from Nalcool, Napacool, Pencool, whatever “cool” (most are made by Nalcool anyway). Don’t change your filter for three oil changes, then either use your test strips, or do what we do, and just spin a new 4 unit filter on alternating every second to every third oil change. Keeps ya right in the middle for protection.

Hope that helps. Call me if ya run into something I forgot…T
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:43 AM   #8
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Thanks Tony. I'll get this printed off.

No Petercars here. KW and Macks only. This C15 is in "my" long hood W900L.
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'93 W350 CC, LE, 5spd, HTT modded H1C, 4" DE

Sold- '99 3500 Q/C, SO CTD, 4x4, 5spd.

Traded off- '97 3500 C/C, 4x4, CTD

'92 W250, LE, CC, CTD w/ tweaked pump (SOLD)


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Old 01-03-2009, 04:41 AM   #9
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X2 Tony,Got mine printed just in case the site get's hacked again.
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Thanks Tony. I'll get this printed off.

No Petercars here. KW and Macks only. This C15 is in "my" long hood W900L.
Hafta add a step then bud. Sorry. You have to remove the accy idler in the front for the fan belts to get to the other three pump bolts. No biggy, but have a big 12"+ Crescent wrench handy for the big nut, and don't over tighten the fan belts
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