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Old 04-25-2010, 08:14 PM   #1
droy
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More boost from a Borg Warner?

Background =
2004 W900 with MBN; has had some mods done to it (necessity, more than want of more power, although power is nice,)
130-1097 cam due to stock cam flaking, then ECM flashed to 550 6NZ due to MBN ECM not compatible to new cam.
For what it's worth, inframed due to galled rings on #1 (divider plate on turbo washed, and EGTs went off the wall.
Mileage around 650k to 690k when work was done. (110k back)

Borg Warner turbo at time of inframe, and boost has always been on the low side; maybe 27# max, realistically, 25# at shift & load points.
YES, charge air was checked! Would guess stock turbo before replacement usually around 30#, at same engine load, it maxed around 33# IIRC.

Questions are:
(1) Can the B W be adjusted to have boost upped to around, say, 30-32#?
(if so, a short explanation of how would be greatly appreciated!)

(2) Any upsides/downsides, that I should be aware of?

Recently went back to stock injector codes from the 5232s, due to concern about the rough idle; and although it smoothed out considerably, the loss in power was really noticed. (would estimate close to 50 horses rode off into the sunset). Still plenty strong, but was wondering if I could make up some of the lost power by adding boost. Fuel wire, and fuel cooler are in the very near future; other suggestions?

Thanks in advance;
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:48 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droy View Post
Background =
2004 W900 with MBN; has had some mods done to it (necessity, more than want of more power, although power is nice,)
130-1097 cam due to stock cam flaking, then ECM flashed to 550 6NZ due to MBN ECM not compatible to new cam.
For what it's worth, inframed due to galled rings on #1 (divider plate on turbo washed, and EGTs went off the wall.
Mileage around 650k to 690k when work was done. (110k back)

Borg Warner turbo at time of inframe, and boost has always been on the low side; maybe 27# max, realistically, 25# at shift & load points.
YES, charge air was checked! Would guess stock turbo before replacement usually around 30#, at same engine load, it maxed around 33# IIRC.

Questions are:
(1) Can the B W be adjusted to have boost upped to around, say, 30-32#?
(if so, a short explanation of how would be greatly appreciated!)

(2) Any upsides/downsides, that I should be aware of?

Recently went back to stock injector codes from the 5232s, due to concern about the rough idle; and although it smoothed out considerably, the loss in power was really noticed. (would estimate close to 50 horses rode off into the sunset). Still plenty strong, but was wondering if I could make up some of the lost power by adding boost. Fuel wire, and fuel cooler are in the very near future; other suggestions?

Thanks in advance;
I have a 03 MBN and have done almost the same as you have. I used a 6NZ cam (139-0538), and had my ECM flashed with a 7CZ 600 file. My B/W 198123 will easily push 40+ lbs. Recently one of my MBN injectors started leaking, so i used a set of 6NZ nozzles (10R-0957) but still make the same boost, but mileage has increased considerably. I had to go back to my wastegate turbo when I switched from 3.70 rears to 3.36. It just didn't jive with that big turbo...ran too hot. When fall comes back around, i'll prob put it back on and run till spring.

If I use 5232 or 6999 codes mine idles rough too. Just like yours...program stock codes, and idle improves, but noticable loss in power.

You should have more boost than that. Make sure you don't have fault codes logged in the ECM putting it in derate.

No way to adjust the BW unless it's a wastegate style. You need to check over everything, you should be making more boost than that.

Also, what FLS/FTS numbers did you use?
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2005 250 Super Duty Crew. White and Grey. ARP studs, EGR Delete, and SCT from Vivian. CCV re-route, and 4" Magnaflow turbo back.

Other trucks: 1979 Kenworth W900A reg hood, 1980 Ext hood, 1982 Kenworth Cabover Aerodyne (BJ and the Bear) 2000 and 2003 Kenworth W900's. All Caterpillar Power. My 2003 has an MBN I converted to 6NZ. 7CZ 600 American Brakesaver File, 74/-19 FLS/FTS, Far Call custom injectors, 800 cam, and a Borg Warner (Perkins) 318883 windmill with a 1.45 A/R ex housing. 856 to the tires via Antrim Dyno.


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Old 04-25-2010, 09:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droy View Post
Background =
2004 W900 with MBN; has had some mods done to it (necessity, more than want of more power, although power is nice,)
130-1097 cam due to stock cam flaking, then ECM flashed to 550 6NZ due to MBN ECM not compatible to new cam.
For what it's worth, inframed due to galled rings on #1 (divider plate on turbo washed, and EGTs went off the wall.
Mileage around 650k to 690k when work was done. (110k back)

Borg Warner turbo at time of inframe, and boost has always been on the low side; maybe 27# max, realistically, 25# at shift & load points.
YES, charge air was checked! Would guess stock turbo before replacement usually around 30#, at same engine load, it maxed around 33# IIRC.

Questions are:
(1) Can the B W be adjusted to have boost upped to around, say, 30-32#?
(if so, a short explanation of how would be greatly appreciated!)

(2) Any upsides/downsides, that I should be aware of?

Recently went back to stock injector codes from the 5232s, due to concern about the rough idle; and although it smoothed out considerably, the loss in power was really noticed. (would estimate close to 50 horses rode off into the sunset). Still plenty strong, but was wondering if I could make up some of the lost power by adding boost. Fuel wire, and fuel cooler are in the very near future; other suggestions?

Thanks in advance;
The 6NZ 550 file...was it stock or modified? I tried my Borg Warner on one of my stock 6NZ's one time, and if I remember, it didn't make that much boost. Maybe 28-30 lbs.

Mr. Haney or Ynot should be along in a while...they can shed some light on it. All I know is what I have tried and tested.
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2005 250 Super Duty Crew. White and Grey. ARP studs, EGR Delete, and SCT from Vivian. CCV re-route, and 4" Magnaflow turbo back.

Other trucks: 1979 Kenworth W900A reg hood, 1980 Ext hood, 1982 Kenworth Cabover Aerodyne (BJ and the Bear) 2000 and 2003 Kenworth W900's. All Caterpillar Power. My 2003 has an MBN I converted to 6NZ. 7CZ 600 American Brakesaver File, 74/-19 FLS/FTS, Far Call custom injectors, 800 cam, and a Borg Warner (Perkins) 318883 windmill with a 1.45 A/R ex housing. 856 to the tires via Antrim Dyno.


Transporter and Operator of a Bauer Built Championship Unlimited Tractor Pulling Sled for the United Pullers of the Carolinas, Region IV affiliate of the National Tractor Pullers Association (NTPA), and damn proud of it!!!!
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:06 PM   #4
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o,k droy after i see your guys you playing with alot stuff like!!! bosst2,2k resistor,turbo michigan stage 5,B manifoil,6nz head rockers,1LWcam,2ws, 6nz hot ecm,5232,fls127 fts0,marine injec10R-0958,59, a regulator to 45lbs in the head bsstsensor,fuel sensor 1000hm a oring fire 0958, if a C15 low hp have 18:1 a high hp have 17:01 my question is why you guys talk about compression. Why wont you guys put down the compression to 14.5 or 14.like marine, It could produce more power and bosst. The thing that i see is that caterpillar gauges never passes 32lbs. When i used pittsburg power the gauge marked 32(truck), but the pp power marked 40. I think you would need to do a trick to lie to the computer. But its just an opinion.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledMan View Post
I have a 03 MBN and have done almost the same as you have. I used a 6NZ cam (139-0538), and had my ECM flashed with a 7CZ 600 file. My B/W 198123 will easily push 40+ lbs. Recently one of my MBN injectors started leaking, so i used a set of 6NZ nozzles (10R-0957) but still make the same boost, but mileage has increased considerably. I had to go back to my wastegate turbo when I switched from 3.70 rears to 3.36. It just didn't jive with that big turbo...ran too hot. When fall comes back around, i'll prob put it back on and run till spring.

If I use 5232 or 6999 codes mine idles rough too. Just like yours...program stock codes, and idle improves, but noticable loss in power.

You should have more boost than that. Make sure you don't have fault codes logged in the ECM putting it in derate.

No way to adjust the BW unless it's a wastegate style. You need to check over everything, you should be making more boost than that.

Also, what FLS/FTS numbers did you use?
Thanks sledman, hadn't thought of checking ECM for codes, although I don't think it has any, runs too good to be in a derate, imho. Also,
my B W does have a wastegate, at least I think it does; small short red hose leaves the cool side, goes down to a silver/gold colored cylinder looking gizmo below turbo, that has a threaded rod protruding out other end. The BW I was sold is supposedly good to 600 hp.
Model # on tag = S410G, P/N = 177148


Quote:
Originally Posted by SledMan View Post
The 6NZ 550 file...was it stock or modified? I tried my Borg Warner on one of my stock 6NZ's one time, and if I remember, it didn't make that much boost. Maybe 28-30 lbs.

Mr. Haney or Ynot should be along in a while...they can shed some light on it. All I know is what I have tried and tested.
Think I have a stock 6NZ 550 file, Ecm work done by DDS, and IIRC, we agreed on the stock program, not 100%, though, lot going on at that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pichu2 View Post
o,k droy after i see your guys you playing with alot stuff like!!! bosst2,2k resistor,turbo michigan stage 5,B manifoil,6nz head rockers,1LWcam,2ws, 6nz hot ecm,5232,fls127 fts0,marine injec10R-0958,59, a regulator to 45lbs in the head bsstsensor,fuel sensor 1000hm a oring fire 0958, if a C15 low hp have 18:1 a high hp have 17:01 my question is why you guys talk about compression. Why wont you guys put down the compression to 14.5 or 14.like marine, It could produce more power and bosst. The thing that i see is that caterpillar gauges never passes 32lbs. When i used pittsburg power the gauge marked 32(truck), but the pp power marked 40. I think you would need to do a trick to lie to the computer. But its just an opinion.
Kinda puzzled pichu2;
If you READ my thread, NOTHING was mentioned about compression. For what it's worth, the person that did my inframe is an ex-Cat tech, now very successful shop owner who is waaaay more knowledgeable about Cat engines than I'll ever be. I explained to him about the ECM on my engine being changed from MBN, to 6NZ, and also the cam that was recently installed. I let him make the decision as to whether to go back with the MBN piston paks, or use 6NZ paks. In all honesty, I think the stock paks were used, but not sure.
I won't touch the rest of your post, as I'm not sure what you are talking about, and wonder if you understand my reason for this thread.
Thanks and good day.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:52 AM   #6
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Try pinching off the wastegate hose and drive it. You should see 8-10lbs or more boost. All of my 6NZ's with the stock turbo run about 25-28, or 30-35 with it pinched off.

You can adjust the wastegate, though most of the time the threads are seized from being so hot and in the rain and stuff. I always take off the clip, remove the two nuts and shim the wastegate with washers. Usually 1 or 2 flat washers will do.

I assumed you had a non-wastegate turbo. The boost you are making is about right for a stock file. It may be just a touch low though. I would try whay I said first, and see if it kicks the boost up more.

Like I said, Mr. Haney should be along in a bit.

The CR difference between a 6NZ and MBN is not that much. 6NZ is 16.1, and MBN is 16.6. No big deal
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2005 250 Super Duty Crew. White and Grey. ARP studs, EGR Delete, and SCT from Vivian. CCV re-route, and 4" Magnaflow turbo back.

Other trucks: 1979 Kenworth W900A reg hood, 1980 Ext hood, 1982 Kenworth Cabover Aerodyne (BJ and the Bear) 2000 and 2003 Kenworth W900's. All Caterpillar Power. My 2003 has an MBN I converted to 6NZ. 7CZ 600 American Brakesaver File, 74/-19 FLS/FTS, Far Call custom injectors, 800 cam, and a Borg Warner (Perkins) 318883 windmill with a 1.45 A/R ex housing. 856 to the tires via Antrim Dyno.


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Old 04-26-2010, 02:37 AM   #7
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Thanks for the help sledman, and if you run out of place to park that '79 W900A, I can "hold" it for you; just send the title with it........Drool, slobber, drool,
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:15 AM   #8
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Thanks for the help sledman, and if you run out of place to park that '79 W900A, I can "hold" it for you; just send the title with it........Drool, slobber, drool,
Well, I'm sorry to say it's sitting behind my shop. It needs a hood, bumper, radiator, and RF spring. An elderly lady ran a red light last June, and I t-boned her directly in the door running 55 mph. I've been debating whether to keep it or not.
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2005 250 Super Duty Crew. White and Grey. ARP studs, EGR Delete, and SCT from Vivian. CCV re-route, and 4" Magnaflow turbo back.

Other trucks: 1979 Kenworth W900A reg hood, 1980 Ext hood, 1982 Kenworth Cabover Aerodyne (BJ and the Bear) 2000 and 2003 Kenworth W900's. All Caterpillar Power. My 2003 has an MBN I converted to 6NZ. 7CZ 600 American Brakesaver File, 74/-19 FLS/FTS, Far Call custom injectors, 800 cam, and a Borg Warner (Perkins) 318883 windmill with a 1.45 A/R ex housing. 856 to the tires via Antrim Dyno.


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Old 04-27-2010, 07:40 PM   #9
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That is BW's # for an 0R7923, good for 40psi+ and the stock "big boy" for a 2WS/6NZ 550hp. Plug off the waste gate hose and run it. There's your 50hp back
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:23 PM   #10
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Well, I'm sorry to say it's sitting behind my shop. It needs a hood, bumper, radiator, and RF spring. An elderly lady ran a red light last June, and I t-boned her directly in the door running 55 mph. I've been debating whether to keep it or not.
I would say to keep it unless the memory of the wreck would haunt you , It is hard to get them back if you let them go
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