I should have bought a Cummings - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
Thread Details Posted by cmcdonald, this thread has received 58 replies and been viewed 14376 times.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-12-2011, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
Points: 14,707
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I should have bought a Cummings

I should have bought a Cummings
Just a friendly warning of what I learned the hard way regarding Diesel Exhaust Fluid. To make a long story short I was distracted as one of my guys went to fill up my DEF tank in my 2011 f250. Due to me taking a cell call approximately 1 gallon of the fluid was poured into the wrong tank (the diesel tank) before I noticed. If you guys donít know the DEF and diesel fill ups holes are right next to each other on the fords (not a good idea). I am not very familiar with this fluid, I read the back of the DEF bottle and not seeing anything that concerned me about mixing a bit of the DEF in the diesel tank I did not think too much of it. I thought after all they are meant to burn together and I just filled the truck up with about 27 gallons of diesel and if it could really cause harm it would be posted on the DEF bottle. After driving it for a while, it quietly stalled and I coasted to the shoulder, turned the key a few times with no luck then had it towed. I was initially informed that it would cost $9,000 to repair the damage. After the work was performed After just getting of the phone with the ford dealer we are now up to well over $20,000.00 in damage and in need of a new engine and fuel system on a 2011 truck with 25,000 miles on it. Due to this mistake.
Ultimately the reality is that I have no one to blame for this but myself. But if one gallon of this fluid can do this and the tank fills are right next to one another I canít help but think Iím not the first to do this.
And likely wonít be the last. After spending tens of thousands keeping a few of the past two generation ford diesels running I told myself I would never get one again. A bit back one of my company trucks diesels blow a hole in the block at 17,000 miles. That at least that $25,000 bill was covered under warranty. My other ford diesels were just endless money pits. To many Ford Diesel problems to list.
I donít know why but I found myself at the dealer sitting in a new F250 listening to the sales men tell me how it gets over 20 miles to the gallon and how much HP it has. I was also told that I would never have to fill up the DEF tank and it would be filled only at oil changes. Ford designed it to not need to be filled between oil changes. Before I knew it I was driving a truck with way less power than I imagined averaging about 14.8 miles to the gallon as per the ford computer but I think it was lying a good bit. I was also filling up the DEF tank twice in between oil changes. So now not only do you have to make sure you have enough fuel to get places you need to keep an eye on the DEF, and the DEF Can be tough to find.
Like I said this one is my fault, but help me out a little bit. Freightliner vans have been using this fluid for several years and the fill up for the DEF is under the hood. And dodge Cummings meet emission requirements without needing DEF. I almost feel like ford designed it this way for failure to make a few extra bucks.
Man I should have got a Cummings
Below is an email I just received from the dealer

Mr. Mcdonald,
As per our discussion, I am providing you with a breakdown of what repairs have been performed and repairs still required to address the damage done to the fuel system and engine caused by the fuel contamination when the diesel exhaust fluid was added to your fuel tank.
When vehicle was towed in to Larson Ford it did not start or run. During our discussion over the phone you described to me that one of your employees had mistakenly added DEF fluid to your fuel tank and that the vehicle was then driven until it shut-off and would not restart.
Upon initial inspection the engine would not turn over either by starter or manually. When Ford was contacted to inquire about the possible effects of this contamination we found that a possible reason the engine would not turn would be due to high pressure fuel pump catastrophic failure, which would jamn the gear that is connecting the engine to the hp pump. Removal of the pump was required to see if the engine would turn. Also, this type of failure requires complete replacement and cleaning of required fuel system components.Upon obtaining authorisation for pump removal, we dissassemble to the point of pump removal and found the engine would turn manually. As we still could not start the engine, fuel system repairs were required and authorised to enable starting of the engine. the required fuel system repairs totalled $9035.00+tax which included fuel supply pump, high pressure pump, fuel injector manifolds, fuel injection steel lines, fuel injectors, fuel filters, all needed gaskets and seals. Also included removal and cleaning of fuel tank, supply and return lines.
Upon completion of fuel system repairs, vehicle started and ran, but ran rough. Engine diag for missfire determine no contribution from 2 cylinder, no compression.Informed that a partial teardown of engine was required to determine extent of repairs required to engine.Upon authorisation and teardown found several pushrods, rocker arms and valves damaged, also found valves had contacted pistons causing further damage to lower internal engine components.
When comparing replacement of damaged engine components to "longblock" replacement, it was determined that "lomgblock replacement was the most cost effective repair. Parts and labor for "longblock" replacement total additional $13997.00+tax.Bringing the total repair cost to $23032.00+tax. This total cost includes all fuel system components already replaced, all needed seals, gaskets, engine parts and fluids, and all labor charges to complete repairs.
Due to the cost of the parts required Larson Ford requires a deposit to account for parts and labor already invested in repairs and to order the engine "longblock". deposit required is $12,500.00.
If you require any other information please contact me by phone at 732-363-8100 ext. 505 as this is the most effective contact method.

Thomas Fortin
Assistant Service Manager
Larson Ford
1150 Ocean Ave
Lakewood, N.J.
08701
cmcdonald is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-12-2011, 09:15 PM
Let it all Ride
 
Eazydeezy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,316
Points: 59,104
Thanks: 180
Thanked 121 Times in 101 Posts
WOW, that's pretty darn pricey. But to be honest, I like the idea of the DEF filler neck being next to the diesel filler. It's convenient in my opinion. Good luck with your repair!

Dominic
'16 Ram 3500 Limited, DRW, 3.73's, Aisin, 4x4
Eazydeezy is offline  
post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-12-2011, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
Points: 14,707
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ha Ya, I see your point. But donít forget a lot of these trucks are used in small companies where there are different drivers hoping in and out. The freightliner having it under the hood makes more sense to me now that my motor blew up
cmcdonald is offline  
post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 12:10 AM
Senior Member
 
fine69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Posts: 1,606
Points: 69,066
Thanks: 262
Thanked 205 Times in 155 Posts
Garage
So, you screw up and its Ford's fault for putting the fillers too close?

2009 F350 4x4 CCLB Job 2, Lariat Ultimate, 6.4L, Auto, Tuned by KEM, S&B, DPF/DOC delete, 325/65xR18 Nitto Terra Grapplers on Weld EVO Cheyenne 8 wheels, 2.5" Levelling Kit, Carriage Works Billet Grill, Recon Smoked Mirror and roof lights, Mag-Hytec Diff. Covers, Line-X Xtra Spray on liner, Weatherguard toolbox, DuraFlap mudflaps, Bilstein 5100's, ALL The Factory Options!


http://community.webshots.com/user/FineFord
H-M.W.H. Club #2
Union Club #1
Singles #237
B.O.M.B. Squad #12
Ridin' Dirty Club #17
American Club #15
fine69 is offline  
post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
Points: 14,707
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you read what I posted I do take full responsibility for the fluid in the wrong tank. And I did post this because I was not able to find another story like it on a forum. The point being be careful or it could cost you. So no, Im not blaming ford for having the two tank opining close together but I do think that freightliner has a better setup in there van that would lessen the likely hood of this happening. I also am saying that I am filling up this tank way more than I ever thought I would. If any of you guys have a few trucks in your fleet (or more) you may want to have one guy responsible for filling the DEF tank rather than just leaving DEF around for anyone to fill up. I know most of you on here never ever screw up or make mistakes but keep the rest of the worldís dummies in mind when that occasionally donít explain something fully or pick the right guy for the job. I would imagine many of you may never have others driving your trucks and do it all yourself, and others of you may have large fleets with a professional managing them. Iím someplace in the middle. I also learned that maybe I should open my eyes to other makes. I have 10 ford trucks and vans swap out two or three a year for new. Both my father and my grandfather drove fords. I am amazed at how loyal I have been to ford after the complete failure (in my opinion) of the last two generations of diesels. I NEED my trucks for work and when a new f450 blows a hole in the block during my peak season it costs me money. This is just one example of many issues that left guys not working. When this 450 blew it sat in the parking lot of a ford dealer in NY State for a long time ill guess over two months before I got it back. It was sitting in a line of other blown diesels. Just saying as much as some of you guys are ford groupies and loyal to one brand it doesnít mean that brand is loyal to you.
cmcdonald is offline  
post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 02:32 PM
Junior Member
 
buffalobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: n. missouri
Posts: 212
Points: 25,642
Thanks: 23
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
GM puts the filler under the hood and since it is only needed to refill about every 5-6000 miles, no inconvenience noted.

2011 silverado lt, crewcab, short bed, 4X4, d-max/ allison
buffalobob is offline  
post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
Points: 14,707
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalobob View Post
GM puts the filler under the hood and since it is only needed to refill about every 5-6000 miles, no inconvenience noted.
Thatís good to know, GM does have a great combo in their trucks. Every article I read comparing the new ford 6.7 to the Duramax the Duramax comes out ahead. Ford is constantly claiming higher HP and torque and the duramax smokes the ford empty or towing. The engine braking on the duramax is supposed to be great as well.
cmcdonald is offline  
post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 04:22 PM
Junior Member
 
Nadir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 141
Points: 18,518
Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Same Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcdonald View Post
I am not very familiar with this fluid, I read the back of the DEF bottle and not seeing anything that concerned me about mixing a bit of the DEF in the diesel tank I did not think too much of it.
I would probably have thought the same, especially since the fillers are right next to each other. That just smacks of brain dead design for two reasons: 1) The majority of drivers, whether they are employees, women, or the average Joe are not going to know or care anything about this potentially disastrous problem. 2) Something with the potential to cause said disastrous results would be clearly labelled as such by the manufacturer. Do we need another FDA (Fuel and Dumb-*** Administration) to monitor, label and approve everything we put in our vehicles to protect us from ourselves?

I remember when they first started going to unleaded gasoline and made the spigots on the pumps smaller so it was literally impossible to put leaded gas in a new car calling for unleaded. That was not even a really big issue and would do no real harm, for one or even a few tanks before it fouled the cat.

People who had or have this problem should get together and file a class action lawsuit. Absolutely brain-dead unforgivable. That is of course assuming the breakdown was not just a coincidence and had nothing to do with the DEF.

Truck Pics:
Nadir is offline  
post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 07:37 PM
Junior Member
 
Jassman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 187
Points: 21,846
Thanks: 3
Thanked 31 Times in 13 Posts
Garage
I read all of this on the other diesel site and it was closed, and hopefully the same here. Be professional, suck it up, it was your mistake, you admitted it or was it your employee, you cant seem to remember. Bottom line. I call BS on the whole situation..especially rambling on about all your Fords and what a POS..and then you got talked into it..and secondly, you are new with few post counts, great way to start.


MODS PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD. Thanks Jeff

2011 F350 LWB CC 3.55's GPS Lariat personal truck
2011 F250 SWB CC 3.55's Lariat delivery truck w/over 100k as of 12/11
2011 GMC 2500HD CC 3.73's partners truck
2012 Dodge 3500 dually 6.7 HO car hauler

2010 F150 FX4 5.4 3.73's sold to employee

2008 LWB CC 6.4 dually..3.73 and all the options...No mods at this time....sold to NJ friend

Last edited by Jassman; 08-13-2011 at 07:41 PM.
Jassman is offline  
post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 07:40 PM
Junior Member
 
Jassman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 187
Points: 21,846
Thanks: 3
Thanked 31 Times in 13 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcdonald View Post
Thatís good to know, GM does have a great combo in their trucks. Every article I read comparing the new ford 6.7 to the Duramax the Duramax comes out ahead. Ford is constantly claiming higher HP and torque and the duramax smokes the ford empty or towing. The engine braking on the duramax is supposed to be great as well.
I own both..both great..dont believe everything you read. I still prefer the Ford for towing, and with out a question for hauling heavy loads. Jeff

2011 F350 LWB CC 3.55's GPS Lariat personal truck
2011 F250 SWB CC 3.55's Lariat delivery truck w/over 100k as of 12/11
2011 GMC 2500HD CC 3.73's partners truck
2012 Dodge 3500 dually 6.7 HO car hauler

2010 F150 FX4 5.4 3.73's sold to employee

2008 LWB CC 6.4 dually..3.73 and all the options...No mods at this time....sold to NJ friend
Jassman is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cummings engine ID help rockns General Dodge Discussion 3 10-10-2010 11:25 AM
L10 cummings mcquown84 Medium and Heavy Duty 3 08-17-2009 09:25 AM
Cummings and Excusion imported_99powerstroke Road Kill, Bench Racing 25 08-07-2007 12:11 PM
looking for a Cummings? Rcannon The Parking Lot 7 07-11-2007 02:29 AM
My Dodge TK with Cummings Redneck 5.9L Cummins (Pre 1994) 10 08-26-2005 08:29 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome