6.7L's Air-Water Intercooler Question - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-28-2009, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Question 6.7L's Air-Water Intercooler Question

How much of a benefit is this system over an air to air? Will this aid in power gains? Will it help the new 6.7L have an edge over the Duramax and Cummins?

Can anyone explain the true benefits of this design?

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-29-2009, 01:41 AM
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I think it was for pakageing,no benefits for street use, why use air to cool water to cool air,when you could just go air to air. Plus the coolent that goes to intercooler goes threw a bunch of other crap , not sure what get the cold coolent first hopfully the intercooler.
it will be awesome for sledpulling though put in a ice box and pump........

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-29-2009, 12:12 PM
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Overall, air-to-water systems are heavier because of the extra mass the larger coolant system needs to be designed for (or the addition of a separate one). Also, once heat-soaked, they need some time not under WOT to cool down. Air-to-air just throws the hot air away!

Because the IC itself is more efficient (water-to-air), in principle, the distance from the turbo to the intake of the engine should be shorter, which will reduce throttle response. It also can have a lower pressure drop.

Also, air to air efficiency is STRONGLY related to vehicle speed. The faster you go, the more heat you can remove with the IC catching the air. In a liquid-to-air IC, the liquid has much more balast and will not heat up that quickly, so at lower speeds, it still provides cooling.

Can't be all that bad, the Shelby GT500 has one. As mentioned above, for any type of racing applications, an ice system would have undeniable benefits over air-to-air. We all know how important cold air charge temps are.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-29-2009, 03:36 PM
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The only effected air water system I seen thats works well is in Reno at the Air races. Of course going 450+ MPH helps with the air flow.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 01:11 AM
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L2A (liquid to air) CACs are more efficient than A2A 9air to air), there are benefits that are not obvious...
1) When used for this purpose, they decrease warm-up time of the engine from cold starts.
2) They reduce throttle delay (turbo lag) SIGNIFICANTLY
3) The charge air temp is more uniform over time - that is the temp changes more slowly
4) Mass infront of the axle center line is reduced
5) There is less heat-sinking of the charge air in high ambient temps when pulling from a dead stop.

Others have correctly mentioned the packaging size advantages and there is also lower risk of CAC pipe leaks due to fewer connections.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 04:44 AM
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Why do they reduce turbo lag?

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 11:36 AM
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It may be true that if you measured the turbo lag, it is reduced, a better way to put it is that they reduce throttle response (which many people may call turbo lag in this case). Air to liquid IC's have (if designed right) a much shorter path from the turbo to the intake valve. That is because they are so small compared to an air to air intercooler. So, they could only have a volume that is 1/2 or even a quarter of the volume to fill that an air to air has. With so much less volume to compress, when the throttle is nailed and higher intake pressure is summoned, the boost the turbo makes fills and pressurizes the smaller volume more quickly. That in turn leads to more air in the cylinders leading to more power and more exhaust and faster spool up.

What came first: the boost that caused the greater air in the cylinder that led to more exhaust that spooled the turbo faster, OR the turbo spinning faster leading to more boost leading to more air leading to more exhaust.....?

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 12:32 PM
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Water cooling quickly changed to air to air in the 80's in big rig engines. Although water cooling may shorten the path of air to the intake, it isn't a better way to reduce intake charge temperatures.. As the engine heats up, coolant temps are generally above boiling. although intake charges are in the hundreds of degrees, I don't think it takes a brain surgeon to figure out that boiling water isn't the best coolant, and it also taxes the cooling system. A combination of both may work well for both the intake and coolant temps.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 02:53 PM
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REDUCING throttle response causes a GREATER delay in power after you mash the "gas", Reducing throttle LAG (turbo lag) causes a SHORTER delay in power after you mash the gas.

The improvement in throttle response comes from the MUCH shorter (as much as 90%) path and charge air volume between the turbo and the intake valves.

If you are using "boiling" water in your engine, it's junk, that's called "overheating". Modern L2A charge air systems do not use coolant at engine temp, you must think engineers are idiots, but cold coolant from a seperate A2L (low temp) radiator. In some systems, the LT CAC system is completely seperate from the engine cooling system, but that is not common - they often share at least the surge tank/fill tank and radiator cap.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-2009, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_G View Post
REDUCING throttle response causes a GREATER delay in power after you mash the "gas"
How's that? How does a shorter response time to a throttle "input" result in a greater delay in power?

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