Please explain something to me - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Please explain something to me

So, when Ford came out with the F450 pick-up in 2008 they touted it's 33,000lb GVWR and 24,500lb towing capacity when equipped with the 4.88 axle ratio. Then (supposedly due to customer complaints about fuel mileage) they dropped the 4.88 axle ratio and magically the 4.30 ratio had the same 33,000 GVWR and 24,500lb towing capacity when before it was significantly less.

The new 2011 F450 has smaller wheels and can't possibly fit the same size brake rotors as the 08-10 model years. I read that it has a GVWR of 13.5k lbs, around 1k lbs less than the 08-10 model year 450. Yet it has the same GVWR of 33,000lbs of the 08-10 models.

Do factory tow ratings mean anything?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 10:13 PM
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It all has to do with engineering. If the engineers are not scared of the lawyers, they can do what ever they want. Tow ratings are really relative.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-15-2009, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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That's basically what I'm saying...

Ford touts the 2008 F450 with it's class-leading tow capacity, but only with the 4.88 rear end. Then magically the 4.30 rear end gets the same rating, 4,000lb higher than it was before with NO changes to the truck, when the 4.88 isn't available anymore. Doesn't make sense. what are the ratings based on in the first place?

Don't get me wrong, I love my 2008 F450. It has the 4.30 rear end and will tow whatever I'll need it to. But that still doesn't make me like the manufacturer's playing around with the ratings.

Hey, is your truck an auto or manual? Wanna trade if it's a manual?
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-19-2009, 12:04 AM
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Does anyone know when FORD changed the F450 rear gears to 4.30 and if they, after that ,still offered the 4.88s?


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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-19-2009, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldguy5.0 View Post
Does anyone know when FORD changed the F450 rear gears to 4.30 and if they, after that ,still offered the 4.88s?
They offered both gear ratios at first, then later in the 08 model year (I believe Job 3 trucks) only the 4.30 rear was available. In the chassis cabs you can still get 4.88. you can also purchase the 4.88 gears, there's a thread where a guy posted info about it. Mine is a 4.30, I've driven the 4.88 and it is a lot more fun to drive, more responsive, especially with an automatic. Fuel mileage isn't too good, though. I think I'd rather have it, though, except for the few times I take a long trip without towing.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-19-2009, 06:55 PM
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Let's start off with the fact that higher numbered gears are easier on the trans and cooling system.

Testing and validation TAKE TIME, Ford is NOT going to publish a GVWR/GCWR until they are SURE the cooling package, engine and transmission can take the load and meet very rigirous engineering specs. This is best demonstrated by the fact that Ford trucks build LESS underhood and engine temperature towing the same loads compared to ANY of the competition.

The brake system is not a matter of size as much as engineering.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-19-2009, 07:58 PM
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So basically, what John is saying is that the 4.30's had the capability all along, and probably when the Ford marketing guys heard the backlash regarding the fuel economy issues with the 4.88's, they thought about ways to overcome it. Obviously, gearing is one way, and as John said, they did the testing and the 4.30's could also meet the previous claimed performance. The implication is that very likely, the 4.88's can do a lot more than the rating they have been advertised to deliver. So maybe the 4.30's are pretty close to their limit at 24.5K towing limit, but the 4.88's might do 28-30K at the same level of stress. There are obviously other factors, like the brakes, but for sheer pulling capacity, I think the implication of the 4.30's being "the same" is that this actually means the 4.88's can do more.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 12:45 PM
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The 400 hp compensates for the change from 4.88 to 4.30 plus the shorter tire height also requires less gear. Until I see the brakes and rotors I will reserve comment.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphinnj View Post
So basically, what John is saying is that the 4.30's had the capability all along, and probably when the Ford marketing guys heard the backlash regarding the fuel economy issues with the 4.88's, they thought about ways to overcome it. Obviously, gearing is one way, and as John said, they did the testing and the 4.30's could also meet the previous claimed performance. The implication is that very likely, the 4.88's can do a lot more than the rating they have been advertised to deliver. So maybe the 4.30's are pretty close to their limit at 24.5K towing limit, but the 4.88's might do 28-30K at the same level of stress. There are obviously other factors, like the brakes, but for sheer pulling capacity, I think the implication of the 4.30's being "the same" is that this actually means the 4.88's can do more.
I agree with you that the 4.88's are more capable than what they were rated at...my question is more about what are tow ratings worth? There must be some reason Ford rated the 4.30's at one level and the 4.88's at a higher level, both ratings LOWER than what the trucks are actually capable of. What makes me question the whole thing is that Ford rated the truck with 4.30's at 20,500lb. Then not too long later, with no changes, it is rated at 24,500lbs. Why wasn't it rated there in the first place? I can't imagine they hadn't tested the truck fully before it was released and knew already that it was capable of that. And why weren't the 4.88's rated higher?
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parts Jimmy View Post
The 400 hp compensates for the change from 4.88 to 4.30 plus the shorter tire height also requires less gear.
Huh?
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