D250 brakes - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-28-2013, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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D250 brakes

Hello,
I have a 1992 dodge d250, Cummins with intercooler. I changed the front pads and looked at the rear shoes (3/4 left), since then the BRAKE and ANTI-LOCK light stays on while driving. I heard there is a single wire behind the glove box that can be grounded with the key on that will flash the CHECK ENGINE light in the instrument cluster a series of blinks to diagnose the problem. Any information will be greatly appreciatedThank You
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 03:50 PM
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Sounds a little like the brake control module is acting up.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-28-2013, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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Hello,
I have a 1992 dodge d250, Cummins with intercooler. I changed the front pads and looked at the rear shoes (3/4 left), since then the BRAKE and ANTI-LOCK light stays on while driving.
IF MEMORY SERVES ME RIGHT, THE BRAKE FLUID WAS LOW IN THE MASTER CYLINDER(it may have'd sucked air) SO I ALSO BLED THE BRAKE LINES.
IT MAY HAVE GOTTEN SOME GRIT IN THE PROPORTIONING VALVE (which I think is under the master cylinder) I'm trying to isolate the problem before I replace what's not broken.
I heard there is a single wire behind the glove box that can be grounded with the key on that will flash the CHECK ENGINE light in the instrument cluster a series of blinks to diagnose the problem.
Thank You
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 01:03 AM
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You may need to bleed the air again. Do you have a soft peddle?
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 01:25 AM
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If you did not compromise the cleanliness of the system by either breaking the steel lines loose at the proportioning valve, or getting some type of dirt or grit into the master cylinder while the lid was off for filling, I doubt you have any grit to deal with. As later said, a soft pedal is indicative of air in the brake system. From basic physics, a liquid cannot be compress but a gas, (air) readily compresses.

A brake proportioning valve will self center itself and turn off it's annunciator lamp if the air is out of the system as the front and rear system pressure will equalize internal to the valve. I've seen several that will not reset is there is a minute amount of air in the system, (usually in the rear).

The check brake lamp, and anti-lock brake warning lamps are not part of the OBD-1 engine management operating system diagnostics and therefore the flashing check engine lamp will not reveal codes for problems in those areas. OBD-1 schemes were manufacturer discreet so you will need a Chrysler book to decode anything with them. OBD-2, (in place for the 1996 model year) for vehicles sold in North America was much more consistent with all vehicles although some codes were still proprietary to the manufacturer.

Last edited by Backslap; 03-02-2013 at 01:30 AM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Hello,
I have a 1992 dodge d250, Cummins with intercooler with 158,000 mi., 2W drive,automatic. I don't haul much.
I have a very loud clunk in the rear of the truck,. It sounds clunk, clunk specially after a stop and worse after a stop while turning. Then it quits, i.e. hard to isolate the noise. I'm working alone and can't tell if t's u-joints or brakes . I think it's in the rear drums.
I'm going to replace the u- joints (they have a little play)
I'm trying to do a brake job. Is there a diagram for the rear brakes, i can't find it on FAQ's.
Once I get in there I'll report whats broken and may replace the 3/4 ton wheel cylinders with 1 Ton cylinders.

I GOT THE HUBS OFF AND THE REAR SHOES SHOW NO WEAR AT ALL.

Thank You for any information.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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PACKED THE REAR WHEEL BERINGS. TEST DRIVE-LOUD CLUNK. PULLED THE DRIVE SHAFT, THE U-JOINTS LOOK FINE. I QUIT FOR TODAY.
MAYBE IT'S THE SLIP YOKE OR A BROKEN MOTOR MOUNT?
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommu View Post
Hello,
I have a 1992 dodge d250, Cummins with intercooler with 158,000 mi., 2W drive,automatic. I don't haul much.
I have a very loud clunk in the rear of the truck,. It sounds clunk, clunk specially after a stop and worse after a stop while turning. Then it quits, i.e. hard to isolate the noise. I'm working alone and can't tell if t's u-joints or brakes . I think it's in the rear drums.
I'm going to replace the u- joints (they have a little play)
I'm trying to do a brake job. Is there a diagram for the rear brakes, i can't find it on FAQ's.
Once I get in there I'll report whats broken and may replace the 3/4 ton wheel cylinders with 1 Ton cylinders.

I GOT THE HUBS OFF AND THE REAR SHOES SHOW NO WEAR AT ALL.

Thank You for any information.
If there is no wear on the rear shoes and they haven't been changed in a while, they are probably not working. Whether this is due to air in the lines, frozen adjusters, frozen wheel cylinders, brake hardware, or anything else is not clear in the symptoms posted so far. Snap a photo of the brake assembly before you remove them so the orientation is know to reinstall or replace. Remove the brake shoes and hardward from the backing plate of the wheel end. With your index fingers, verify you can push the internal pistons back and forth inside the wheel cylinder. If you cannot, replace the wheel cylinder. Ensure you shoe adjuster, (starwheel) is also free. If it is not either clean and lube it or replace, (I always replace all brake hardware). One ton cylinders may or may be the same but regardless not much to be gained with this option.

Replace any universal joints with ANY play, or tightness at all without exception. Either symptom if run in that condition is an invite for breakdown. The "clunk" you are describing could be universal joints, slip you or spline wear, and if the truck has a "sure grip", limited slip differential the clutch plates binding from lack of the correct additive.

I am making the assumption you have full floating axles in that the rear wheel bearings were able to be "packed"; This is not normally done as the bearing share the rear axle lubricant from the gearset. There is a possibility of grease incompatibility when this is done but most oils and greases do not interfere with each other these days. When I rebuild a rear axle, I lightly smear a thin film of axle lubricant through the rollers or soak the bearing just prior to installing into the race so they don't run dry on initial run in.

When you get the rear brakes built back up on the truck, it would be best to have an assistant with a little bit of experience to help. With the drum installed onto the wheel end, adjust the brake shoes till a very light drag of the shoes is against the friction surface of the inside of the drum. Once both wheels are adjusted correctly, (with the light drag) bleed the system with the rear axle elevated if possible. Have someone pump the brake pedal with the engine running about 10 times and hold the pedal down securely. Starting at the rt. rear wheel, loosen bleeder fitting and have the brake pedal pushed to the floor without letting up until the bleeder is tightened. Repeat the proceedure two more times. Check fluid level in the master cylinder, top off, repeat sequence with lt. rear, then move to the rt. front, then left front. At conclusion you should have a solid pedal that is very near the top of it's stroke when the brakes are applied. The parking brake should pedal adjustment should be very near the top of it's stroke also.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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clunk

Thank You very much.
With the rear in the air, in forward or reverse, the drums stop when brake pedal pushed. U-joints have no play. Checked rear end fluid, can't get any on my little finger inserted to first joint, yes it's a Dana 3.54 limited slip. I know it needs topping with 80w90? gear oil and may be Chrysler friction modifier 4318060 (or your suggestion). The clunk has been heard for months, but it was intermittent (hard to isolate) and has gotten more frequent and louder.
Thanks again,
Thomas
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommu View Post
Thank You very much.
With the rear in the air, in forward or reverse, the drums stop when brake pedal pushed. U-joints have no play. Checked rear end fluid, can't get any on my little finger inserted to first joint, yes it's a Dana 3.54 limited slip. I know it needs topping with 80w90? gear oil and may be Chrysler friction modifier 4318060 (or your suggestion). The clunk has been heard for months, but it was intermittent (hard to isolate) and has gotten more frequent and louder.
Thanks again,
Thomas
I like either the Mopar number you have mentioned, or "Trans-X" brand friction modifier. The gear oil is low and should run at the bottom of the plug opening when truck is level.

To check a slip and spline: with the truck in it's normal orientation on flat ground, push up on the driveline where the slip and spline engage with each other. Any movement at all vertically, it is shot. Pretty basic really as they are built with only a minute amount of play that you cannot feel or see.

Both the Dana/Spicer 44, and 60 series drive axles use a series of friction and steel plates for the limited slip operation via a preload spring pack. You need the friction modifier formula in there or they most always make noise accelerating from a stop in a turn as the clutch plates bind against each other. If the axle has been run for a while without the additive, (it does wear out) it may take a while after the additive is installed for things to loosen up a bit and settle down.
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