Cold Air Intake Opinions - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-02-2013, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Cold Air Intake Opinions

I am going to add a cold air intake system, and am leaning towards the aFe with a dry filter (as I am sure the timely cleaning of an oiled filter will not get done due to the amount of miles I put on the pickup).

Thoughts anyone?
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-2013, 05:04 AM
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What's wrong with the stock filter? Just playing devils advocate. My 6.0 has stock and all I did is open up the front via the "zoodad mod" by cutting holes to allow fresh air direct at the filter inlet. I did put a deflector in since I plow in the winter and don't want snow building up when she is sucking air. I guess I've never understood the need for an aftermarket filter system when the OEM spends alot of time developing the one already on the truck. A family member who turned wrenches and now workers for one of he big three would laugh anytime I mentioned KN filters. The only reason I ever did buy them for vehicles was if the paper Frams or Wix were expensive so it made sense to spend a little more and just wash it every 30k miles. My wife's last car there wasn't much difference in cost for 3-4changes so I threw a KN in it. Never felt the horsepower change or any fuel economy improvement they promote.

By the way my air temp is always same as ambient now with he zoodad and with 20lbs of boost there is about a 40 degree rise at the second air temp sensor after CAC. The 6.4 appears to have a similar air filter based on photos. I can't get any of the bibles to open for some reason and I'm not that familiar with he 6.4 but sucking air is sucking air right? . Hopefully this will help kick start the discussion when someone disagrees.



Wes

Early 2004 F-250 4x4 CC 6.0


2nd owner, ARP studs 1 at a time, Some parts missing in the exhaust path, BD intercooler hoses, Blue spring, MC filters, Sinister coolant filter, Exhaust manifold gaskets, WARN lockouts, Gold coolant, zoodad mod, autometer boost gauge, high idle mod, Scangauge 2, SCT X3 tuned from KEM, autometer fuel pressure gauge, Archoil 6200 in the fuel, FICM by Ed w/ATLAS40, autometer pyro gauge,'08 Alum Rear Diff cover, 5w-40 Rotella T6 w/ Archoil 9100 in it, zert in the slip joint, harpooned fuel tank, 6.4 banjos


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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-2013, 12:24 PM
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this is your take over the topic and how much good it is going to brought back in the case of the trouble posted at the very top is yet to see as i also need to mend with the same ..
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-2013, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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I have thought as you Weld Engineer, except, I have an H&S tuner and on tow mode with a brand new air filter if I get after it the air restriction indicator on the air filter will set and the "CHECK AIR FILTER" light comes on. If an aftermarket intake system will provide less restriction, then the engine will breathe easier, I won't have to reset the air filter restriction indicator, and perhaps there will be some minor improvement to MPG.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-2013, 01:23 PM
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this is your take over the topic and how much good it is going to brought back in the case of the trouble posted at the very top is yet to see as i also need to mend with the same ..
Please clarify as my lower level of intelligence was unable to process the information you have presented.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-2013, 02:41 PM
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I like a cold air intake myself; preferably a hood scoop mounted either off center on the hood panel, or side mounted on a/or fender(s) type affair for the "ram air" effect. I seen a really nice setup on a guys F-350 using fiberglass scoops mounted on the sides where the intake screens are. There were insulated aluminum pipes fashioned to feed the airbox underhood also. Pretty neat looking setup that looked very functional. One feature I really liked was an underhood actuator door for blocking outside air and allowing underhood air intake. I imagine this is a good idea for precluding snow ingestion.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-2013, 08:05 PM
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Every time I have ever seen engine failures from a filter allowing dirt threw the filter or the intake coming apart has been an aftermarket system.
There is a filter test results are that the aftermarket allow dirt into the system KNN is 89 % efficient a stock filter is 99+% efficient, look it up, filling an engine with dirt so you can hear the turbo noise to me is less than intellectual. Not one system has a guarantee, not one system proves it does anything. a very small film of dirt in a system causes a lot of restriction, anybody that ever had an oil bath air filter learns that well a little dirt in the intake and wearing the turbo, and in the CAC is a restriction.
Stock comes with a guarantee, no other system does.
Just a thought from someone who does not believe the BS about intakes, additives, EGT's. I worked on engines all my life that pull their guts out every day, with stock guaranteed systems.

1988 ford van fresh overhaul, 1991 nissan pick-up 1993 Caprice 2000 GMC S10 Blaser 2007 nbs 3500 GMC 4x4 crew-cab long box 17 inch single wheels Duramax Alison. BW turnover Ball. Furakawa FL35 loader. Retired, HD mechanic, worked on engines all my life. Fabricator welder. electrician. in the process of finishing my new shop. Live in Rock Creek B.C. Wife has a fruit stand.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbow12 View Post
I have thought as you Weld Engineer, except, I have an H&S tuner and on tow mode with a brand new air filter if I get after it the air restriction indicator on the air filter will set and the "CHECK AIR FILTER" light comes on. If an aftermarket intake system will provide less restriction, then the engine will breathe easier, I won't have to reset the air filter restriction indicator, and perhaps there will be some minor improvement to MPG.
Is that a stock OEM filter? I don't doubt that your pulling some serious flow but wonder if the sensor is bad or their is something else going on. How much boost do you build? I'm not tuned much but my 6.0 doesn't even register on the vacuum sensor for the filter and it will spool to 26 lbs fast. It's kinda oranges and apples but your 6.4 liter displacement and combined boost I would think the volume is like 8-9 liters with full boost- just a WAG so if someone knows for sure please correct me. I guess my thought is unless your running a lot higher boost pressure than stock then the volume shouldn't be that much different. Tuning affects timing, fueling and speed of boost from what I understand. Volume is volume in and out of the engine. I suppose if the RPMs increase faster than stock then the rate of flow would be different. I guess my concern would be along the lines of what John is saying that flow is increased in aftermarket because it doesn't filter as much allowing more air flow. Is there a way to increase flow/ reduce restriction AND still use stock filters is the question.



Wes

Early 2004 F-250 4x4 CC 6.0


2nd owner, ARP studs 1 at a time, Some parts missing in the exhaust path, BD intercooler hoses, Blue spring, MC filters, Sinister coolant filter, Exhaust manifold gaskets, WARN lockouts, Gold coolant, zoodad mod, autometer boost gauge, high idle mod, Scangauge 2, SCT X3 tuned from KEM, autometer fuel pressure gauge, Archoil 6200 in the fuel, FICM by Ed w/ATLAS40, autometer pyro gauge,'08 Alum Rear Diff cover, 5w-40 Rotella T6 w/ Archoil 9100 in it, zert in the slip joint, harpooned fuel tank, 6.4 banjos


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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 05:55 AM Thread Starter
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Is that a stock OEM filter? I don't doubt that your pulling some serious flow but wonder if the sensor is bad or their is something else going on. How much boost do you build? I'm not tuned much but my 6.0 doesn't even register on the vacuum sensor for the filter and it will spool to 26 lbs fast. It's kinda oranges and apples but your 6.4 liter displacement and combined boost I would think the volume is like 8-9 liters with full boost- just a WAG so if someone knows for sure please correct me. I guess my thought is unless your running a lot higher boost pressure than stock then the volume shouldn't be that much different. Tuning affects timing, fueling and speed of boost from what I understand. Volume is volume in and out of the engine. I suppose if the RPMs increase faster than stock then the rate of flow would be different. I guess my concern would be along the lines of what John is saying that flow is increased in aftermarket because it doesn't filter as much allowing more air flow. Is there a way to increase flow/ reduce restriction AND still use stock filters is the question.



Wes
Yes Wes, usually a Wix, but this happens on all the stock filters. It will get to the high 30's on boost. If one were diligent the oil treatment filters would likely out-perform stock filters in both restriction and filtration, but we put miles on too fast in too dirty of environments to take the risk. If I could get a comparable dry filter in regard to filtration, even though I may need to change it frequently, I would be interested.

I am not interested in this for the heavy footed - let's see how fast I can get to the next stop light aspect, but rather for efficiency and longevity, as we haul up to 30,000 lbs. gross with this pickup/trailer. We legally can haul more if we licensed for more, but accept for occasional short trips on flat land - which we rarely do - I don't feel comfortable pulling more than that from a safety and wear and tear standpoint.

I am in construction, and will not risk dusting the engine if I cannot be convinced that the filtration is as good or better than stock. However, stock didn't account for the air flow that mine evidently would like to have now. Stock DID provide 4 mpg less mileage than I now get with modifications, and I have record of every fuel up since it was new that gets input into excel for cost per mile calculations. I am not at all impressed with what the engine manufactures are required to conjur up in order to meet current emission standards.

But I digress, you, JohnP, and I have had this dialogue before as I recall.

I really just wanted recommendations and experience with aftermarket air intake systems. The size of the air filters relative to horsepower produced in this pick up compared to the heavy equipment that we run pales in comparison. If I could figure out how to get a primary and secondary air filter off of say a 330 excavator under the hood I would do it in a heartbeat.

Regarding egt's John, I ran the same engine at the same horsepower in a T600 and a 378. The T 600 had one small filter under the hood - the 378 had two large ones mounted outside. The egt difference was typically about 200 degrees different on the same hill, with the same load, and the same outside temperature. That is proof enough for me.

P.S. aFe advertises 99.4% with dry and 99.7% with oiled. It would be good to see an independent test on a variety of brands. And yes, during the Mt. St. Helens ash that we drove in, those that had oil bath filters faired much better.

Last edited by Oxbow12; 09-04-2013 at 06:00 AM.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
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I worked on engines all my life that pull their guts out every day, with stock guaranteed systems.
And yet you were working on them, did the guaranty not prevent failure?
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