190 mpg from a diesel - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-11-2006, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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190 mpg from a diesel

Check this out. http://www.ecoworld.org/Articles/Hybrid_Cars_EW.htm

I got a pamphlet from VW the other day and it talked about this 90 mpg LUPO. I had my wife call the dealer about it. They told her it won't be available here. That bites. How come they don't sell those things here? The desiels fly off the lots. 90 mpg and its not a hybrid. And what about VW's claim to be building a 190 mpg four passenger car. Thats amazing! I truly believe that our government secretly prevents this stuff from becoming available here. If it took off, the big 3 automakers would take a big hit. To catch up they would have to retool there assembly lines and whatever else. What person these days isn't affected by the high price of fuel. We all try to save somehow. Just my opinion though. Whats yours?

Tony

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-11-2006, 11:24 PM
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The Prius is EPA'd close to 50 MPG, some drivers ahve "modified" them to get 100+ MPG (run mostly on electrons, recharge overnight, rarely use gasoline). This is STANDARD programming in EVERY other country in which the Prius is sold, but not here.

Diesel electric hybrid cars could offer ranges near 1,000 miles on a 12 gallon tank, at a 15% price premium over a pure diesel.

There are some very powerful factors that may very well keep diesels out of the USA:

-GM, if not for the "350 diesel" that RUINED America's "taste" for diesels, we would not be in this dieselless mess to begin with.

-Enviro Natzis who want a diesel to exhaust cleaner air than they intake. And are not smart enough to know that 80% of ALL "engine" pollution comes from 2% of the dirtiest units.

-Kalifornia and the "North Eastern Commonwealth" who DO NOT want ANY diesels at all. Togather they account for nearly 20%-25% of the ENTIRE automotive market in the USA. Would you try to market a vehicle (diesel) where 25% of the total market could not leagally own your produce? No.

-EPA, the clueless EPA and their utter unwillingness to MANDATE decent diesel fuel. Europeans have been using ULS Diesel (Ultra Low Sulpher) for many years, this alone will reduce exhaust emissions significantly on ALL diesels. BTW, this applies to gasoline too, but no one is talking about that.

-CAFE regulations that SUCK. Do the officials of the EPA think Americans are STUPID? Lets see, mandate emissions reductions (at IDLE), which cause INCREASED fuel consumtion (more overall emissions) over a vehicle's life. Let's be SMART, take any vehicle and make it more efficient at any emissions standard, and you REDUCED overall emissions. If car "A" emits 4 tons/year of CO2 and gets 20 MPG while meeting EPA emissions specs, if you MANDATED 22 MPG it would reduce CO2 emissions by 0.4 tons/year (3.6 tons/year) WITHOUT making for a more expensive engine!

-Emissions and fuel economy have NOTHING to do with "power". Example, Corvete: 350+ HP, 0-60 is under 6s, EPA highway rating of 29 MPG (many get over 30 with a m/t).

Until the EPA gets it's own head out of the collective arses of the "Big Three", we are STUCK with the BS system we have. Oh, the EPA would also need to "get some brains", and apply *some* level of common sense to their decisions.

Do YOU think that is likely? I do not.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-12-2006, 06:23 AM
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why do they gripe at us, when there is probably gasoline cars on the road?? diesel vehicles are so superior in every way too?

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-15-2006, 10:35 PM
 
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I really do not believe 190 MPG, unless you drive so slow as to make jponder look like Tony Stewart and the vehicle is so small nobody bigger than a Barbie doll could ride in it. They are going to have to show me.

Diesels are essentially dead once Tier II takes effect. When you put a 2 micron barrier filter small enough to fit under a car and at the gas flow rates common to diesels, your back pressure will reduce the efficiency of the diesel down to that of the gas engine by imposing “pumping losses” on the engine. Think of it as running with an exhaust brake of EBPV stuck closed all the time.

Most people have forgotten the 350 diesels. There were far more VW, M-B, 6.2/6.5 GM, 6.9/7.3/6.0 I-H, and 5.9 Cummins diesel vehicles sold than the 350 GM disasters.

Running your car on house current save you little money. Around here the marginal khw of residential electricity costs 6.5 cents. That equates to $19.05 per million BTU. Diesel costs $2.40 a gallon which equates to $17.14 per million BTU and unleaded costs $2.05 a gallon which equates to $17.08 per million BTU. Yeah the battery/electric motor combo is very efficient but the weight of batteries is a problem. That’s why the straight electric car never works. The weight of batteries more than offsets the gain in efficiency. Every time you accelerate, you have to accelerate all that battery weight. Yeah, I know about regenerative braking but except for pure stop-and-go city driving, regenerative braking does not offset the road load penalty.

Buy a diesel before Tier II kicks in – I think Jan. 1, 2007 – and keep it up religiously. Old equipment will grandfather out of Tier II. Twenty-five years from now it could still be going and people will look at you like you are driving a Stanley Steamer, except you’ll be kicking their butt in fuel economy.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-15-2006, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Whitmer
Diesels are essentially dead once Tier II takes effect. When you put a 2 micron barrier filter small enough to fit under a car and at the gas flow rates common to diesels, your back pressure will reduce the efficiency of the diesel down to that of the gas engine by imposing “pumping losses” on the engine. Think of it as running with an exhaust brake of EBPV stuck closed all the time.
Extensive testing has shown this not to be a real problem. Granted, the "real world" is very different than the lab.

Quote:
Most people have forgotten the 350 diesels. There were far more VW, M-B, 6.2/6.5 GM, 6.9/7.3/6.0 I-H, and 5.9 Cummins diesel vehicles sold than the 350 GM disasters.
No one that owned one of those piles has forgotton it, and they contiune to cast a dark shadow over all LD diesels in the USA from a sales and marketing standpoint.

Quote:
Running your car on house current save you little money. Around here the marginal khw of residential electricity costs 6.5 cents. That equates to $19.05 per million BTU. Diesel costs $2.40 a gallon which equates to $17.14 per million BTU and unleaded costs $2.05 a gallon which equates to $17.08 per million BTU. Yeah the battery/electric motor combo is very efficient but the weight of batteries is a problem. That’s why the straight electric car never works. The weight of batteries more than offsets the gain in efficiency. Every time you accelerate, you have to accelerate all that battery weight. Yeah, I know about regenerative braking but except for pure stop-and-go city driving, regenerative braking does not offset the road load penalty.
Actually, while your $/BTU are close, that is only a part of the equation.

With a pure electric vehicle, your actual operating costs, including battery replacements and electricity are typically about 1/2 of a similar vehicle running on gasoline.

The majority of the reasons for that are that you get AT BEST 30% efficiency from gasoline, and 35% from every gallon (or BTU) of diesel. So while your cost per energy unit is lower with gasoline and diesel, your cost per MILE is far greater. Basically, you get 1/3 of the total energy out of each gallon, making the net real cost 3x $2.05 and $2.40.

Electricity system efficiency is close to 75%, so $0.75 of every dollar goes to drive the vehicle. That means that pure electric is FAR cheaper than either gasoline or diesel, even hybrids.

'93 F-250 HD, 7.3L IDI, 5spd - FARM TRUCK
I Support: Trailer brakes an every axle over the towing vehicle's GVW; CDLs for RVers; Safety inspections for ALL vehicles and 6 axle trucks (97K GVW proposal).

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-16-2006, 10:02 PM
 
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You've got a tall order convincing me that a 2 micron barrier filter won't substantially reduce engine efficiency.

Why is it that everything the EPA thinks up acts to reduce efficiency?
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-17-2006, 02:14 PM
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David, you would have been proud of me yesterday. I came out of La through the woods and hit Hwy 98 to Hatties burgh and averaged 40 MPH for 150 miles and I was flirting with the Holy Grail! I couldnt take it no mo and sped up but man i bet you I was scaring the Living ell out of that 30 mark!

DAMN Red light though, I hate when they make me loose all my kinetic energy. All red lights should be at the tops of hills where you can use gravity to get back going again. I wish we did have some kind of regenerative braking. i remember reading that some where in Europe they had a system where the busses would spin this giant flywheel to slow them and then engage to it to get moving again. That would be cool!

I agree with David that we need to buy up the diesels. I need to buy 2 or 3 old 2cd gen 12 valves and put them in storage, drive them forever

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-18-2006, 03:53 PM
 
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Hi guys, new to the boards and I think its great. Anyways, I am probably one of those enviro-nazis and from Kalifornia. I think there is a market for diesel's in CA. After reading about diesel efficiency and bio-diesel fuel, I think the market here is ready for decent engines. Especially since everyone here has to drive some sort of SUV. And with gas prices there is only one direction for the state to go. Hybrids may be the fad of the moment, but their technology is limited. Diesels on the other hand are better engines, get better MPG than their counterparts and are already the standard in Enviro-Europe. It only makes sense that this stupid state of mine will move towards diesels...., Hopefully....
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-18-2006, 10:35 PM
 
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good point sbrighter

and welcome to the Garage
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-19-2006, 02:41 PM
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The main problem with diesel emissions is the fuel we have in the USA, it is CRAPOLA compared to what is standard in Europe and Japan. We have, and will have, WAY too much sulpher in diesel to meet emissions, and there are other standards that I do not fully understand the impact on emissions that are involved as well.

'93 F-250 HD, 7.3L IDI, 5spd - FARM TRUCK
I Support: Trailer brakes an every axle over the towing vehicle's GVW; CDLs for RVers; Safety inspections for ALL vehicles and 6 axle trucks (97K GVW proposal).

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote - Benjamin Franklin

I vote for LIBERTY!
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