Round 2: Navistar sues Ford again! - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Round 2: Navistar sues Ford again!

Well, I am sure most of you have seen this by now, because it is in both ford news and Navistar news headings. But to get the scoop, you can go to navistars or fords website and look for yourself.

But this is what I can most honestly say at this point. Now I just read the current issue of Fleet Owner Magazine. In their they had the topic of Navistar buying out GM medium duty. Now I know Navistar is putting their diesels in the medium duty line up of GM, with the GM gas option. But they also had suttle briefings of the future of GM diesels, that may have IH diesels in the pickup line. Now you can say what you want. But I truly believe this is positioningleveraging them into the GM trucks. So if GM has IH diesels in their 2010 or 2011 trucks, you heard it here first. But if not, you can disregard it.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-01-2008, 05:46 PM
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no way why woud gm buy hi diesels when they build there own

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Don't shoot the messenger. Until someone else reads that article from Fleet owner and can tell me different, then we can talk. But never say never. I would have never thought the relationship between ford and IH would stoop to this level. But in retrospect of your question, IH can build engines cheaper-meaning lower cost of production because they have a broader market range to disburse the cost over than say GM. I am just reporting what I read. I am not saying it is going to happen for certain, but only that it might possibly happen and don't be alarmed if it does. Not starting rumors or fictitious material, again only reporting what I read, and trying to pry any other info from someone else that may know more.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 09:22 PM
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Guys, I think we can safely assume that GM will keep the DMAX in light diesel trucks. GM still makes the light trucks on their assembly lines, they still own the DMAX plant in Moraine, Ohio and they still own the Allison 1000 transmission plant in Baltimore MD.

In the light-medium duty trucks, I would think the DMAX will still remain in the 4500-5500, too.

Now ponder this: If IH builds Ford's MD's, why don't Ford 650-750's have DT466's in them? Why Cummins?

So if IH is gonna built the 6500-8500 GM trucks, isn't it possible they'll have CAT or 7.8L DMAX power in them, too?

I don't think it's impossible that IH power finds its' way into GM medium/heavy trucks, but if Ford mediums have CAT or Cummins power, then GM may have non-IH power in them, too.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 10:32 PM
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After the troubles that Ford and IH have had in the past few years, I dont think that GM corprate will take a outstanding leap of faith and put IH engines into the light duty trucks, not after the fact that the Duramax lineup has been doing really well for itself. Not saying that the Duramax is better than IH, but thus far the GM lineup has been doing pretty well for itself. Yes it had some growing pains, but so did the Powerstroke (or did everyone forget about the injector failures when those first came out?).

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2008, 11:42 PM
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I thought that they were putting isuzu engines Duramax in the halftons and also isnt Toyota going to put an isuzu in the tacomas? I thought that they said that in dieselpower mag.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-03-2008, 12:52 AM
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the durmax engine is all gm now

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-03-2008, 01:10 AM
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http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...0080228?rpc=44

The suit brought by Navistar on behalf of it's operating arm, International Truck and Engine Corp was REFILED after mediation failed to resolve the issue. That should be no supprise to anyone.

According to Reuters previous reporting, Navistar has a contract with Ford thru the 2012 model year to supply "all diesel engines for use in light trucks". Ford has published it's intent to self-source the 4.4L Rover diesel (Ford Europe) for the 2010 (or so) F-series and other vehicles. If there is a contract between Ford and Navistar valid until 2012, this is a CLEAR VIOLATION of that contract, and $100M would be a small penalty because Ford already paid about $32M to Navistar when it abandoned the 4.5L PSD a few years ago. That amount simply made Navistar "whole", covered R&D costs to go from the already developed 6.0L to the 4.5L.

Navistar looks to be moving forward with it's deal with GM to aquire "all class 4-8 truck products lines". I am not 100% sure what a "Class 4" vehicle is, but I *think* it is one size up from a 1-ton.

Industry reports state that thru 2010, Navistar, via it's International Truck division, will "produce the GM products on their own assembly lines, but GM will retain marketing and distribution rights".

The DuraMax deal with GM is up in 2010, I personally would expect CAT to become unavailable in the GM class 4-8 lines, and International to add the "MaxxForce" brand in lieu of CAT. Maybe retain DuraMax?

What will happen after 2010 is anyones guess, none of the stake holders are talking about FUTURE plans. But it seems that Navistar just sewed up a 75% market share.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-03-2008, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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John G, you are absolutely right. I have stayed up to date with all IH info and so forth. Now to answer Duke: Duke, IH does not supply ford with the 466 because IH has exclusive rights to the 466 and therefore, draws customers to buy IH trucks then. If Ford put an IH engine in their trucks, it would possibly take market share away from IH, not necessarily profits, but market share. Then the only thing ford on it would be the sheet metal and the chassis and engine would be IH. That is the reason why IH does not offer Ford the 466. And GM will eventually be using all IH diesels w/gas options in their medium duty truck, and that is according to Fleet Owner magazine. but GM will still sell Isuzu trucks.

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Let fortune's bubbles rise and fall;
Who sows a field, or trains a flower,
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binderpower
John G, you are absolutely right. I have stayed up to date with all IH info and so forth. Now to answer Duke: Duke, IH does not supply ford with the 466 because IH has exclusive rights to the 466 and therefore, draws customers to buy IH trucks then. If Ford put an IH engine in their trucks, it would possibly take market share away from IH, not necessarily profits, but market share. Then the only thing ford on it would be the sheet metal and the chassis and engine would be IH. That is the reason why IH does not offer Ford the 466. And GM will eventually be using all IH diesels w/gas options in their medium duty truck, and that is according to Fleet Owner magazine. but GM will still sell Isuzu trucks.
Well if IH was scared to put IH diesels in Ford trucks built by IH, then wouldn't it stand to reason that IH wouldn't put IH engines in the GM trucks they build for GM for the exact same reason?

I bet IH puts other brands of diesels in the GM trucks for many reasons, but one of them would be so people won't only have the sheetmetal difference left to decide between a GM or IH medium/heavy.
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