Toasted torque converters :bang - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
Thread Details Posted by Rene G, this thread has received 11 replies and been viewed 2260 times.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 02:00 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Rene G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Posts: 773
Points: 27,458
Thanks: 58
Thanked 42 Times in 41 Posts
Toasted torque converters :bang

I'm looking for those of us that are starting to have converter problems. I would like to see how many miles you have on and what tunes you run, also what are you seeing for tqslip locked and unlocked.

I have run mostly the 275 and can see 1200rpm slip unlocked and 50 locked with 25k miles.

Rene

09 F-350 FX4 lux package, everything but sunroof
Suncoast rebuilt trans. and converter
Line-X box liner and rocker panels
4-lightforce lights on KC light bar
OUO Traction 5"traction blocks
Icon adjustable track bar
Air bags and compressor
Icon 2.5" Leveling kit
Marathon sled deck
Flo-pro exhaust
S&B intake

Waiting for time to install
Dirty Diesel cold side I/C pipe


CANADIAN CLUB MEMBER #15
SINGLES CLUB MEMBER #227

spartan tuned courtesy of www.dirtydieselcustoms.com

Last edited by Rene G; 11-18-2009 at 02:04 AM.
Rene G is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 02:44 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Little Smoky
Posts: 1,415
Points: 38,196
Thanks: 42
Thanked 105 Times in 104 Posts
I will add mine here, i get 800-900 rpm unlocked and up to 50 locked 60,000 km tuned, hasnt been off 275 its been like this for the last 20,000 km i want to get more out of the tranny, to me while the tranny is out it might as well get rebuilt. it gets used hard and had some learning to do like when 4x4 hard to put it in tow/haul to keep the tranny cool bc of not doing that i had the tranny up to 230 once then the fan finally kicked on and was able to stop alittle after to cool down. im thinking around the 150,000 mark if $$$ allows.

2008 F-350 Lariet 6.4L 170,000 km spartan tuned 275 daily
2006 yamaha Vmax
2003 F-350 XLT 6.0L just bought 215,000 km all stock for now.
2003 suzuki 1000 GSX-R
1993 F-250 460
1978 F-150 stock waiting for a paint job

Near GP alberta.

CC#58
budtoh3zo is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2009, 03:41 AM
 
Jesse@MBRP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lexington KY
Posts: 382
Points: 45,168
Thanks: 10
Thanked 33 Times in 31 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Jesse@MBRP
I see about the same here with my RCD tunes. Suncoast convertor on the way after new years.
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2009, 04:25 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Threadstarter
 
Rene G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Posts: 773
Points: 27,458
Thanks: 58
Thanked 42 Times in 41 Posts
I'm bitting the bullet and getting a suncoast rebuild trans and converter from Dirty Diesel.

09 F-350 FX4 lux package, everything but sunroof
Suncoast rebuilt trans. and converter
Line-X box liner and rocker panels
4-lightforce lights on KC light bar
OUO Traction 5"traction blocks
Icon adjustable track bar
Air bags and compressor
Icon 2.5" Leveling kit
Marathon sled deck
Flo-pro exhaust
S&B intake

Waiting for time to install
Dirty Diesel cold side I/C pipe


CANADIAN CLUB MEMBER #15
SINGLES CLUB MEMBER #227

spartan tuned courtesy of www.dirtydieselcustoms.com
Rene G is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2009, 03:24 PM
Super Moderator
 
John_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 4,247
Points: 74,641
Thanks: 101
Thanked 407 Times in 347 Posts
Don't buy-into the idea the Kevlar or other aftermarket clutch material is better, you NEED more discs.

Why do I say that? A lock-up TC is really no different (in lock-up) than a standard clutch, grip is a function of the coefficient of friction, force and area.

You can't increase area w/o more discs (double disc for example).
You can't increase TC pressure (lock up) because after a point (not far from factory) and generatae excessive heat and stress on the piston seals and they fail.
You can't really change coefficient of friction, except to keeep the ATF clean. Different clutch materials may have more friction, but that means they will wear out other components instead.

From what I have seen, the single biggest player in TC problems with regard to slipping is leaving the ATF in too long then changing it. As ATF ages (heat and time) the coefficient of friction changes to the positive, that is to say it has more grip with age and heat cycles. Now you change that out and put in new ATF with a lower fricition coefficient and the trans is shifting at the adaptive it had for the old "grippy" ATF so you get slip. Not enough to notice or set a DTC, but some. This slip in higher power vehicles can rapidly degrade the clutch packs, including the TCC.

The best thing to do is keep the ATF clean and reset the PCM/TCM every transmisison service by pulling the KAM fuse for 5 minutes.

'93 F-250 HD, 7.3L IDI, 5spd - FARM TRUCK
I Support: Trailer brakes an every axle over the towing vehicle's GVW; CDLs for RVers; Safety inspections for ALL vehicles and 6 axle trucks (97K GVW proposal).

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote - Benjamin Franklin

I vote for LIBERTY!
John_G is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2009, 05:43 PM
 
Jesse@MBRP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lexington KY
Posts: 382
Points: 45,168
Thanks: 10
Thanked 33 Times in 31 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Jesse@MBRP
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_G View Post
Don't buy-into the idea the Kevlar or other aftermarket clutch material is better, you NEED more discs.

Why do I say that? A lock-up TC is really no different (in lock-up) than a standard clutch, grip is a function of the coefficient of friction, force and area.

You can't increase area w/o more discs (double disc for example).
You can't increase TC pressure (lock up) because after a point (not far from factory) and generatae excessive heat and stress on the piston seals and they fail.
You can't really change coefficient of friction, except to keeep the ATF clean. Different clutch materials may have more friction, but that means they will wear out other components instead.

From what I have seen, the single biggest player in TC problems with regard to slipping is leaving the ATF in too long then changing it. As ATF ages (heat and time) the coefficient of friction changes to the positive, that is to say it has more grip with age and heat cycles. Now you change that out and put in new ATF with a lower fricition coefficient and the trans is shifting at the adaptive it had for the old "grippy" ATF so you get slip. Not enough to notice or set a DTC, but some. This slip in higher power vehicles can rapidly degrade the clutch packs, including the TCC.

The best thing to do is keep the ATF clean and reset the PCM/TCM every transmisison service by pulling the KAM fuse for 5 minutes.

Good information man.
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-21-2009, 11:07 PM
FukeneH
 
dirty mech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Brooks Alberta
Posts: 197
Points: 26,458
Thanks: 5
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene G View Post
I'm bitting the bullet and getting a suncoast rebuild trans and converter from Dirty Diesel.
did you price out NAPC just woundering
dirty mech is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-22-2009, 12:25 AM
 
powerstroker67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 370
Points: 45,189
Thanks: 11
Thanked 41 Times in 36 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_G View Post
Don't buy-into the idea the Kevlar or other aftermarket clutch material is better, you NEED more discs.

Why do I say that? A lock-up TC is really no different (in lock-up) than a standard clutch, grip is a function of the coefficient of friction, force and area.

You can't increase area w/o more discs (double disc for example).
You can't increase TC pressure (lock up) because after a point (not far from factory) and generatae excessive heat and stress on the piston seals and they fail.
You can't really change coefficient of friction, except to keeep the ATF clean. Different clutch materials may have more friction, but that means they will wear out other components instead.

From what I have seen, the single biggest player in TC problems with regard to slipping is leaving the ATF in too long then changing it. As ATF ages (heat and time) the coefficient of friction changes to the positive, that is to say it has more grip with age and heat cycles. Now you change that out and put in new ATF with a lower fricition coefficient and the trans is shifting at the adaptive it had for the old "grippy" ATF so you get slip. Not enough to notice or set a DTC, but some. This slip in higher power vehicles can rapidly degrade the clutch packs, including the TCC.

The best thing to do is keep the ATF clean and reset the PCM/TCM every transmisison service by pulling the KAM fuse for 5 minutes.
This is very good information and I would like to add a bit more info. It is very true, adding friction material surface area is the best way to get a converter to stay locked up with more hp going thu it. Remember that these stock coverters are already "double" disc and have dual friction or clutch surfaces. The stock cover has an outer and inner clutch(one inside the other). The problem is that the friction is only as good as the steel it is being applied against. Many converter failures are caused by hot spots and distortion of the applied surface,main the front cover(part the studs stick out of). Once the steel surface is no longer flat you loose this friction needed to prevent slipping. Without have a very good understanding of what is gooding on inside that "magic hole", you don't always get what you think your getting. After having cut open and inspected many brand new converters for all the big companies, I can tell you many company's bend the truth on the internals of both converters and trannys. Take for example the stock Ford clutch portion of the 5R110 converter, put that inside a billet front cover and you have built a billet dual disc converter. It only offers a stronger applied surface, but the same amount of friction. Another "trick" is to glue friction material to both sides of a friction plate and then applied it against a steel plate with friction material on one side of it. You now have 3 friction surfaces and a "triple" disc converter.

As far as friction material, there are many different types. It's kinda like build a Southbend clutch. You can start out of "O" for organic, go to a "O FE" for organic on one side and more aggresive brake pad type material on the other, then we go to "FE" which is that more aggresive material on both sides. As you go from clutch to clutch, the ability to hold higher HP increases. As the limits of a single disc was found, Southbend went to a double disc setup to increase friction surface as mentioned above. We custom build a bunch of Dodge and Ford converters and friction material does make a difference. Most of the differences are in the way the clutch comes it or applies. We will bond a different friction material on a single disc vs. multi disc(using the same billet front cover and stator), just because of the difference in how aggresive the lockup will be. I don't have a scientific test of friction material strength as is applies to holding power, but it has to make some difference just like different brake pad material having better/worse stopping power on the same steel rotor. The warning here is be very careful how a company "sells" you there product. It's very hard to see anything thru the hole in the converter.

SPARTAN SCT + H+S TUNERS IN STOCK,SAME DAY SHIPPING TIL 5PM

NEW 6.4 COOLER ONLY DELETES, 6.7 COOLER DELETES BUILD INHOUSE!!!

ONE PIECE, BEST FITTING, AND USA MADE CAT/DPF 3.5,4 AND 5 CUSTOM APPLICATIONS AVAILABLE


[email protected]
www.streetdieselperformance.com
(860)250-6082 Sean tech questions
www.dpfdeletekits.com
(919)636-1518 Aaron sales
2011 F350 Lariat, CC,SB,SRW H+S MINI,CAT/DPF W/ full 5" Magna, 8" Procomp, American Force 22",37" Dunlop Maxx Tractions
2008 F450 Lariat,4X4,4.88's,Job1,Loaded,Spartan310,TCM,SCT w/ Eric's tunes,Elite studs+EGR delete,Updated Head gskts.,POWERSTROKER67 CAT/DPF pipe,AFE,Suncoast T/C,Spearco
powerstroker67 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to powerstroker67 For this addition to TDG:
mmayo (11-22-2009)
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-23-2009, 03:57 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Threadstarter
 
Rene G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Posts: 773
Points: 27,458
Thanks: 58
Thanked 42 Times in 41 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty mech View Post
did you price out NAPC just woundering
I called them and they said they didn't have anything for me

09 F-350 FX4 lux package, everything but sunroof
Suncoast rebuilt trans. and converter
Line-X box liner and rocker panels
4-lightforce lights on KC light bar
OUO Traction 5"traction blocks
Icon adjustable track bar
Air bags and compressor
Icon 2.5" Leveling kit
Marathon sled deck
Flo-pro exhaust
S&B intake

Waiting for time to install
Dirty Diesel cold side I/C pipe


CANADIAN CLUB MEMBER #15
SINGLES CLUB MEMBER #227

spartan tuned courtesy of www.dirtydieselcustoms.com
Rene G is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-23-2009, 06:15 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: in the clock tower....eh!
Posts: 141
Points: 5,278
Thanks: 16
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
So is there a best replacement or one that shines above others?

CC#16, the club not the whiskey!
zeddy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Torque Converters mfd60 2003-2007 6.0L Power Stroke 8 07-02-2007 12:59 PM
Cheaper Priced Billet Torque Converters 95psdF250 The Parking Lot 7 05-26-2006 12:15 PM
Torque Converters: 101 Smokem 5.9L Cummins (1998.5-2002) 0 04-23-2006 03:42 PM
Bang Bang!!! 4S FED The Parking Lot 7 03-10-2006 03:53 PM
Torque converters BROKER 1994-2003 7.3L Power Stroke 6 05-24-2005 10:58 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome