Need help, Deutz f4m1008 keeps konking out - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-18-2008, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Need help, Deutz f4m1008 keeps konking out

Any help would be greatly appreciated........The Deutz f4m1008 engine on my 1998 Schaeff mini-excavator will start fine and it will run for about 5 minutes and then starts sputtering for 15 - 20 seconds or so and then it konks out. I can restart it again, after a few minutes. Then, after a shorter 2 minutes of running, it konks out again. I can do this ten times in a row if I wanted to and it does the same thing, run 2 minutes then quit.

The fuel cap was removed to check if it was a vaccuum problem and that didn't help. There are no fuel line obstructions. I replaced the fuel filter and found that one of the stems on the fuel pump (I assume it is the pump on top of engine) was loose. I was happy thinking that I had found the problem, but no such luck. Is there such thing as tightening this stem too tightly? I am at a loss and as you can tell, I am not very knowledgeable about diesel engines. I don't have a repair manual but I am soon to have one.
Anyways, the radiator is full, as is the oil. I added additional conditioner as well as anti-freeze in case of moisture. Other than that, I am dumbfounded.

Thank you in advance if you can help.

Glenn
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 11:57 AM
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Welcome to the TDG.

Do any of the fuel lines feel really hard and dried out, or an lines that feel squishy? I have seen lines look OK on the outside, but were soft inside and the suction would calapse the line, pcausing it to cut the fuel off enough to kil the engine.

Could also have air getting in somewhere, or maybe a bad fuel supply pump.

We have an air-cooled F4L-912 (I think that is right?) Deutz. IIRC, all of the fuel lines use banjo fittings. Could have a bad brass sealing washer, and we've also had the lines come apart where the line was crimped to the fitting.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Duetz konking out

Thank you for replying. In my message I referred to the "banjo" fitting as the stem that was loose. Perhaps I may need new brass washers for it? I am going to take a closer look at the fuel lines also. I will post more as I hopefully discover more. Thank you for the tips !
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-22-2008, 03:50 AM
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If it lasts 2 min, one of the ways to check fuel lines is to fut 2-4# pressure on the tank and see if it runs longer. Air nozzle wrapped in a rag and held in the fill spout is one way. Another is to connect a pre-luber with fuel in it to the fuel line.

As bmoeller said fuel lines are suspect.

Does it have a prime lever on the lift pump? If you feel no result from moving the prime lever, bump the starter to move the cam. No result both times usually means the lift pump is not working. Lift mumps generally do not restart after a short wait - fuel lines often do.

keydl

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-22-2008, 10:48 PM
 
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Try after it quits to take your filters off and see if they are sucked dry. Sounds like you are running out of fuel. As stated could be air in lines. Check the supply line good make sure it is not cracked any where. I would get new brass washers and look at where it mounts make sure it is not cupped bad that could leak. But Generally they will leak fuel out of a banjo more so then suck air, that is what i have saw mostly anyway. Cracked Lines suck air in a hurry.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 02:35 AM
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Sucking air does not generally restart with out priming, but restricted lines do .
Kinks, flakes, trash and blown out filters make good restricters - the same as plugged filters.

Substituting fuel lines with a portable pump and line, adding a pump at the tank to check function or compressed air in the tank are all ways to get more fuel through the lines. Once it is proved you can either split the supply to see where the restriction is or just take things apart.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-26-2008, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Diesel quits

Thank you all for replying. I took the banjo fitting off and sanded smooth both the fitting and the two washers with 500 grit paper. No go, still quits. The tank is entombed in a steel box under the seat and there seems no way to access it. I guess I will have to pull the whole thing apart somehow. As far as the responses are concerned, could someone simplify for me, I am not familiar with this type motor, nor it's components. There is a pump handle on the bottom of the fuel pump but I see no way of "bleeding". If there is a bleeder valve on this pump, to do so, I am not able to see it..... Thank you again.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-27-2008, 02:47 AM
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Bleeders are screws at the top of the fuel system part that let the air out and let you see the fuel when priming.

If the prime lever is in the extended position on some lift pumps it shuts the lift pump off. If it is a flip lever, you should feel a spring compressing as you work it. If not the cam may be in the lifted position, turn the engine over to move the cam so the pump will stroke. Push pumps may leak air if not secured for the ones that unscrew a little to work.

Before you take the machine apart substitute the whole system with an electric fuel pump and a fuel can. If it runs with that - start with the fuel lines and filter housing. I paid $34 for the last pump to use for trouble shooting - they only last a year or so when you do that with them but an old tool wagon ran 10 years on gas with one that I used for trouble shooting.

If the lines are not in reach it can be converted to a dip tube. and plug off the old line. It will leak for sure if you don't.

keydl

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-27-2008, 04:21 AM
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Another source of restriction could be the pickup on the tank. Remove fuel tank cap, remove the line going into the fuel filter or pump and blow air back into the tank. This will not be a long term fix but it will get it back going for a while if that is what is wrong. When you start to blow the air into the tank start with a little amount of pressure and see if you feel it build up in the line and then a suddenly push into the tank. JJ
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-28-2008, 04:28 AM
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The simple description is a supply line from an inch above the bottom of the tank to a filter or lift pump ( most are lift pump ) , there may be a second filter then the injection pump. There is pressure in the injection pump at all times that goes to the return line to cool and wash the pump and injectors.
The injectors leak ( it is intensional ) and return through the return line. Air compresses so it will not pop an injector but will mostly find the return line and cause a miss while it is passed through the lines.

Restrictions will cause a vacuum where it needs pressure to work well, that the engine shuts down indicates that the vacuum is low enough to cause the fuel to vaporise and compress. But the vacuum keeps sucking and pulls more fuel so it will start agin. To find out where the normal thing to do is plug a substitute fuel line into the machine depending on where you can get to it. If it runs on the fuel can the restriction is closer to the tank.

It may be simpler to drill and tap the top of the tank for a new dip tube. If you do set the dip tube 1/2 to 1 inch above the deepest part of the tank if possible - leaves room for a little trash to settle and have no effect on the machine running. Putting the dip tube at the deepest part makes service easy - exchange the dip tube for a longer tube to suck all the bottom scurfus, water and rust out. Or set the tube at the bottom with notches for fuel flow and catch all the stuff in the filter.

A lot of equipment is set up to discourage operator err, if they can't get to it, they can't mess it up - 22 bolts to check the engine temp sensor connection or get to the rocker cover to check the valve lash. Another is 16 bolts and 240# of belly pan to adjust the clutch. Changing the way they press the belly pan could make it 2 bolts and 10# of cover.

keydl

93 Dodge /CTD, IC, 518, club cab LE, BHAF, KDP fixed, kelderman air ride
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