Pro's and Con's of EGR delete - Page 2 - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 04:06 AM
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Very nice plan!

06 F-350 FX4 4X4 Extra cab Short box
updated stuff: turbo oil supply, fuel pressure spring
deleted stuff: stock oil cooler, egr cooler, next up is the kitty
added stuff: BPD oil cooler system w/cold weather package, Insight, FP, OP and boost gauges

Replace your own EGR cooler and OIL cooler. Files and notes

Comprehensive Flushing Technique

6.0 Owners should know......
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 04:57 AM
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Egr is the easiest common solution to controlling nox that really does not get along in a diesel engine without some negative consequences. I have seen the first generations of attempted nox control in diesel starting in the late 70's. Its now progressed to much higher flow rates that need cooling coupled with very restrictive exhaust systems which create higher than normal crankcase pressures. This all equals to hell in the intake system of the modern diesels that I have to work on, which happen to be MBZ. I can't even begin to describe the amounts of carbon build up that are occuring in low mileage late model vehicles running dpf, its really quite unbelievable. I know John G. has alot more factory experience with the 6.0 than probably any other member on here, and certainly more than me, and his knowledge of the way things work in this motor has taught me and others invaluable things that only someone with very good training and experience could know, and I thank you always. He has been a pillar on this forum over the years. That being said, NYC also has some very valid points that I agree with completely. The 6.0 was the first egr cooled light truck motor to meet the new federal diesel emission standards coming up at the time, in fact earlier than necessary. Theres no getting around the fact of the high failure rates of this motor in relation to emission components and maintenance. In hindsight, theres no doubt that navistar/ford probably wished they had done some things differently. These motors are complex and sturdy, but have limitations, just like any motor does. The closer you stay to stock as far as tuning, or tooning as John would say, the more likely you are to have a happy 6.0 life. There is no reason this can't be done with or without egr and proper maintenance. Theres also no telling how stringent emission inspection and testing will become nationwide. Something to think about when modding any engine. All this I've said is only my thoughts, but if given a choice, I would not run egr in any diesel if it can be done safely.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2011, 08:25 PM
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Besides the emmissions issue, the egr cooler is the tatle tell that your oil cooler is plugging up. Think of it as the messenger.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC F-350 View Post
How would having a tune written excluding EGR valve commands result in realizing durability improvement from the EGR cooler? By not using it? Really? Is this your thought process?
I don't even think you asked a question. There is one person TUNING Ford products that would have a clue what else to change and by how much to keep CPs in check while excluding EGR commands. Even then, I doubt he has the data to work from that would tell anyone what the actual numbers were for CP based on fuel rates, timing, airflow and RPM so it would be an educated guess at best.

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If it is such a great piece of engineering, why wasn't one put on the 7.3?
The fact that you don't know says a lot.

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Removing the EGR cooler from the picture greatly reduces your chance of head gasket failure. Period.
How?

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Your thinking of having the EGR valve commands removed from the programming is flawed for one very simple reason. High boost numbers will force the EGR valve open. You won't even know it.
Really, how does that work? BTW, no where have I EVER recomended or advocated such an idea.

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Coolant maintenance is hands-down the biggest underlying problem in the 6.0 liter. FORD, in its infinite wisdom chose a "one coolant for all" strategy in the day of the 6.0 liter. There is a long argument that goes on and on and on about this topic, and I would rather not have to rehash it all. My personal feeling is that if the coolant is good for a Ford Focus, it probably isn't such a good choice for my medium duty diesel engine.
Not properly maintaining the coolant is the reason that oil coolers plug, the EGR coolers fail and end in head gasket failure. (well the coolant and typical human nature of "if I ignore it, maybe it will go away" or "it is only doing that when I .....")
Yes, I agree for the most part but there is enough evidence to suggest G-5 is causal for cooler restriction for me to not use it in a 6.0L. I don't see that as a maintenance issue for the owner but a non-optimal factory choice, but I don't have Ford's engineering data on it either.

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From first hand experience, deleting the EGR cooler does indeed drop EGT's. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 50F on my truck, specifically.
Now, is that drop related to the removal of the restrictive scoop that is present in the up-pipe on the 6.0 (from 2004 up)? I can't really say for sure, because both my EGR cooler and the up-pipe with that scoop were removed at the same time. But I have certainly realized cooler EGT's.
Cooler EGTs have little to do with a precieved benefit from removing the EGR cooler or disabeling the system. Does anyone know how his EGTs could be lower with the EGR cooler deleted?

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I also take exception to when you say that a stock, unmodified engine will outlast a modified engine. There are modifications that will GREATLY improve longevity.
Name ONE that WILL GREATLY improve longevity.

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I have modified my engines oil cooling system. In fact, I no longer have the liquid to liquid oil cooler in my engine. My oil cooler is externally mounted (on the AC condenser) and thermostatically controlled. My oil cooler will last the lifetime of my truck. No stock unit will.
Let us know when this modification results in your engine living past 600K, because those are the current results for the OE cooler with good maintenance.

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The manufacturers don't always get it right. This engines history will surely attest to that. Just take a look at the changes between 2003 and 2004.
Do you know WHY those changes were made? Do you realize that the '02-'03 trucks are actually more reliable?

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Perhaps you should say that poorly designed, poorly executed or ill advised modifications can surely spell an early death of the engine. There are good and there are bad modifications. Pick wisely.
I couldn't have said it better! :thumbup

'93 F-250 HD, 7.3L IDI, 5spd - FARM TRUCK
I Support: Trailer brakes an every axle over the towing vehicle's GVW; CDLs for RVers; Safety inspections for ALL vehicles and 6 axle trucks (97K GVW proposal).

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I vote for LIBERTY!

Last edited by John_G; 07-16-2011 at 04:28 AM.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 06:50 PM
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 09:56 PM
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Bump, Tuneing, More power, Less Fuel. The egr is a catastrophic failure ! The liberal left has cost the American truck owner billions of dollars in totally unessesary repairs and equipment downtime.
Oxygen, cool air are the only things that should flow through a intake manifold, period. If you think that running soot laden exhaust fumes through a diesel engine is a good thing, then you need to wake up and stop acting like a fool that cant be taught anything. I understand engine manufacturer s have to meet the epa mandated bull****.
Caterpillar, the most popular diesel engine on the planet, pulled all engines for transportation and said enough is enough. I specialize in performance Tuneing on the 3406E Cat, i own just about every performance file out there that Cat produced, do i know everything, hell no but i can say if you can operate your 6.0 without a egr and get by with it, Do it ! Get that POS out of there.
I have a 6.0 in a 2006 E350 and doing anything repair wise to it is a challenge, i have the SCT tuner and the computer software for writing my own tunes, i jave only done 1 of my own and its pretty wicked. Its been pushing coolant for years, finding any procedure on this board for the van i have had no luck
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 08:30 PM
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I have been experimenting for almost 2 years where the high pressure (up to 18-20psi at 208F) in the cooling system and the fast rising ECT come up steeply. I have tested everything possible, I have almost disassembled everything and mounted 2 new heads because I had thought of a crack in a head (head gaskets were made by the previous owner). >>> EGR delete and all problems were gone. Now pressure (0-5psi) and lower ECT.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 08:46 PM
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I was also surprised that Ford hasn't taken any precautions all these years because of the disappearance of coolant. 2 years ago, fortunately at home, the hose between the oil cooler and the EGR cooler slipped off. That splashed like the Niagara Falls. If the EGR cooler lets the coolant into the exhaust, the coolant disappears without you noticing if it is just a small leak.
Therefore I built myself a low coolant alarm. I check it at every oil change because I also clean the coolant filter at the same time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkNr0b2EI-A
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