Egr delete vs egr bullet proof - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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Egr delete vs egr bullet proof

Just a straight question for a straight answer...
Talking about the famous powerstroke 6.0L
Beyond any law and assuming i live in an area where emission test is not required.... what is the most suggested action to take to eliminate the hundreds of problems with egr system ?
Deleted?
Replacing for bullet proof or similar?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 01:39 PM
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For overall reliability, deleting the EGR system seems to be most peoples opinion.

Just some personal opinions to get the ball rolling ..... my thoughts on "pros and cons":

Cons to the EGR system

1. Any EGR system can fail (ie the cooler can leak or the valve can have problems actuating). The more equipment, then you introduce new failure possibilities. That being said, BulletProofDiesel EGR coolers and proper coolant maintenance can virtually eliminate EGR cooler issues. The revised EGR valves seem to be pretty reliable now. Ford updated them in 2007 or 2008 I believe.

2. The EGR system does recycle exhaust so if you have combustion problems (say due to a failing injector, bad turbo, etc) you can introduce soot, sludge, or even raw fuel back into the cylinder and it will be even more of a problem. The solution is to do proper maintenance - preventative and otherwise.

3. EGR systems expose coolant to higher temperatures and add extra heat to the system. This can breakdown coolant and coolant additives more quickly. Again - proper maintenance will protect you from issues.

Pros to the EGR system:

1. The EGR system can be a good "early indicator" of other problems, as stated in the "Cons" above. If you regularly pull the EGR valve - say a couple of times a year - you can get an idea as to the health of the combustion system.

2. Under certain conditions, the recirculation of the exhaust gasses can help smooth out turbo operation.

3. Some people report a drop in fuel economy with a delete, then again some people report a gain.

Some people say that a functional EGR system can help prevent overboosting if you have a sticking turbo (in certain situations), others say a sticking EGR valve can add to the risk of turbo overboosting. Probably a wash there.

I am perfectly happy at 155k running my EGR system. If you do delete yours, IMO you need a tuner to account for it properly in the combustion controls.

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270AXP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD BilletWaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 01-23-2015 at 01:41 PM.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 02:33 PM
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See ford_doctor's comments in link below for ways to use the EGR system for troubleshooting:

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...stions-228850/

Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270AXP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD BilletWaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 02:44 PM
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NOX...Nitrous Oxide gasses are produced when the combustion event in each cylinder goes above 2500F, this holds true for gas or diesel engines.

This happens for a split second within the combustion event and by the time the exhaust gasses are pushed out of the cylinder and into the exhaust manifold they will have cooled dramatically, this is true for EGR or no EGR engines.

The sole purpose of EGR systems in gas or diesel engines is to reduce NOX by keeping each combustion event in the cylinders below the 2500F threshold.

EGR gasses are an inert gas (depleted of oxygen) and dilute the air-fuel mixture and act as a filler that suppresses the combustion temps.

Diesels exhaust has soot particulates in it and when combined with crankcase oil fumes that are also being recycled into the intake, they mix together and make a sticky carbon build up that will look like this...
https://www.google.com/search?q=imag...w=1600&bih=740

It is important that a diesel running EGR gets up to operating temps without excessive idling time, or the above will occur. Diesels that are driven hard and steady usually have minimum build up compared to ones that see short trips and excessive idle time.

Mark is right, good maintenance practices is the key, and you should absolutely remap the tuning if EGR has been deleted.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-24-2015, 01:19 AM
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Keep in mind if you delete custom tuning is necessary requiring the purchase of a device like an SCT. It's not a big deal but if your on a budget that's another $400 to add to the price tag of deleting.

Early 2004 F-250 4x4 CC 6.0


2nd owner, ARP studs 1 at a time, Some parts missing in the exhaust path, BD intercooler hoses, Blue spring, MC filters, Sinister coolant filter, Exhaust manifold gaskets, WARN lockouts, Gold coolant, zoodad mod, autometer boost gauge, high idle mod, Scangauge 2, SCT X3 tuned from KEM, autometer fuel pressure gauge, Archoil 6200 in the fuel, FICM by Ed w/ATLAS40, autometer pyro gauge,'08 Alum Rear Diff cover, 5w-40 Rotella T6 w/ Archoil 9100 in it, zert in the slip joint, harpooned fuel tank, 6.4 banjos


Not a diesel mechanic in real life but I play one on the Internet
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-24-2015, 01:47 PM
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All good suggestions guys.

EGR is definitely a 2-way street with pros & cons.

It's good for the environment, but has some consequences in diesel engines.

Because EGR lowers the combustion event it also produces higher soot particulates because it's a cooler burn than non EGR engines.

This is one reason why we have DPF exhaust filters now on all 2008 yr model and newer diesels.

EGR can also help with fuel economy, because when egr is active at cruising speeds you have less air entering the engine than a non EGR engine, which is matched with less fuel needed by the PCM.

There is current technology being developed that may replace EGR in the future by means of an ion gas generator integrated onto the engine that produces an a clean inert gas.

Another way to introduce EGR is through valve timing overlap, but I have only seen this in gasoline engines. Valve overlap leaves some exhaust gas in the combustion chamber by retarding the exhaust valve timing. This allows the EGR to be introduced right at the cylinder and keeps it out of the intake manifold.

Being I see EGR related issues daily at my job, it's not entirely problematic. Some vehicles have consistant EGR issues, and some none at all. It's all how the vehicle is being used or driven and the maintenance practices being followed or not that makes some have issues and some not.

Good diesel fuel if available or the use of a fuel additive on a regular basis can help too, especially if you have low grade diesel like we do in my area.

Bio fuels can produce issues like these here...
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA..._Brochure5.pdf

But thats another story.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-25-2015, 03:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info.
This truck will be living and running in a place where emmisions are not required so we will just delete egr system completely and install a fair tunner to make it work.
If any suggestions about it we will appreciate it.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-25-2015, 02:56 PM
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SCT tuner with custom tuning works best on these trucks.

KEM Performance or Innovative Diesel Performance are a few places that carry SCT tuners and can provide proven custom tuning as well.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavaresg View Post
Thanks for all the info.
This truck will be living and running in a place where emmisions are not required so we will just delete egr system completely and install a fair tunner to make it work.
If any suggestions about it we will appreciate it.
Emission laws are federally mandated not all states do testing if your state began testing all trucks deleted would not meet standards because they were built with certain equipment. You can be fined large sums of money if not in compliance but this is rare although still is a possibility.

Early 2004 F-250 4x4 CC 6.0


2nd owner, ARP studs 1 at a time, Some parts missing in the exhaust path, BD intercooler hoses, Blue spring, MC filters, Sinister coolant filter, Exhaust manifold gaskets, WARN lockouts, Gold coolant, zoodad mod, autometer boost gauge, high idle mod, Scangauge 2, SCT X3 tuned from KEM, autometer fuel pressure gauge, Archoil 6200 in the fuel, FICM by Ed w/ATLAS40, autometer pyro gauge,'08 Alum Rear Diff cover, 5w-40 Rotella T6 w/ Archoil 9100 in it, zert in the slip joint, harpooned fuel tank, 6.4 banjos


Not a diesel mechanic in real life but I play one on the Internet
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-25-2015, 03:40 PM
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So true Weld.

My state has had diesel emission testing for along time now. Although they currently only do a diesel soot opacity test with a probe in the exhaust pipe, that could all change soon as they are talking about making it stricter with visual and obd2 computer testing as well. This will create a big dilema for alot of trucks runing around out there.

Currently they allow 40% max spec opacity reading out of the tailpipe, mine usually reads in the 3-6% percent range, they are talking about lowering the max spec into the below 10% range along with visual and obd2 testing as well on all obd2 equipped trucks.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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