Ideas? Excursion/250...Something fouling out injectors/ficm/etc - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-26-2015, 03:36 AM Thread Starter
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Ideas? Excursion/250...Something fouling out injectors/ficm/etc

Hi.... Hoping someone can help me (and Ford mechanics) out here as so far no one can figure out the root cause.

2005 Excursion Diesel (6.0 TurboDiesel)
~150k miles

Have taken solid care of this truck and had no major probs until around 135k (2014), where we replaced EGR valve, FICM and a few injectors. Made it fine for about 10K, then EGR valve went bad again; replaced it w/new one that lasted about 300 miles (apparently was bad from factory/warrantied...but now I’m wondering if something else wasn’t going on??).

Fast forward to 2 months ago. Drove about 500 miles all over the mountains of Colorado, pretty high elevation, mainly highway. On one of the “usual” passes (10K), as I got stuck behind a lot of slow traffic during the climb, I felt a slight loss of power (intermittent) and a mild “burp/stutter”, so mild that in fact that I thought maybe my foot slid slightly off the gas pedal. I could tell it wasn't running well (seemed like it wanted more "gas" (air?) but I was able to hobble it across the mountain (late at night when I knew there'd be no slow traffic), where they said an injector had gone out, one on the way....so we went ahead and replaced ALL.

Made it another 4-500 good smooth miles after leaving Ford, then boom happened again.....coincidentally over the same 10k' pass, felt the "minor hiccup", saw a little light gray smoke on the acceleration, then on the next mellow climb about 10 miles ahead, the truck stalled. Died. Dead.

I was able to crank it and “gun” it the final one mile to my house. It seemed like that truck only would run if over 2500 RPM, anything slower it would die. Got it towed to Ford dealership who kept it for 10 days -- replaced all injectors, FICM and Master Sensor. It ran fine for the next 500 miles until today......the same mild “burp/buck” when slowly driving up a busy road, and the engine light came on.

So, in sum -- 2 SETS OF INJECTORS, 2 FICMs, 3 EGRs, 1 MASTER SENSOR..... and this keeps happening. Fortunately these parts keep getting warrantied, but my time/safety is not. Further as I’m pretty remote it puts me w/out this vehicle for 1-2 weeks at a time, AND frankly who wants to be stressed out all the time that this tank might die any moment possibly causing an accident -- often in a pretty remote location (no cell, traffic, etc.).

Oh btw, most of the driving over the past 20k has been on pavement or smooth gravel, and all of the driving has been very mellow (no hotrodding, speeding, etc.. I use high quality diesel when possible and additive every few fills. Ford says all else on truck looks fine. Interestingly they couldve tried to make a lot of money off me, but made none as all was warrantied....seemed like a good crew of mechanics. This week will have to take it to a different ford as I'm in a different state.)

Hoping someone here may have some clue of what Ford is missing....root problem? Thanks much....

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-26-2015, 02:10 PM
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Without seeing any live data readings, here's my guess. If the injectors keep malfunctioning, and it seems that they are if you were getting whitish-gray smoke with power loss when the malfunction event's occur, then another issue is causing this for sure as you suggested. If the injector-s that came out are stuck open on the fuel side nozzle then some type of contamination is present in the fuel system or low fuel pressure, could be water in the fuel or your fuel pressure regulator spring is worn (fuel pressure should regulate above 45psi at all times and never lower, 55-65psi is normal and ideal with the blue spring regulator upgrade kit) this is often overlooked because there is no sensor for reading the pressure and requires tapping into the secondary fuel filter housing test port with a gauge and adapter, with low fuel pressure the injectors will hammer themselves to failure in short order. Other causes of repeat injector failures are worn oil rail nipple seals where they attach to the top of the injector, here's a good video on this (https://youtu.be/7YSDVZY_veg), or the injector cups are damaged in the cyl head where the copper combustion seal mates on the injector tip, another cause is poor workmanship on the first install, have seen loose oil rails, loose injector hold down bolts not torqued properly to 28 ft lbs etc..

Good luck and keep us posted.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-27-2015, 12:09 PM
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As Harry said - you definitely need a scan tool that can retrieve live engine data (ScangaugeII or TorquePro app if you have an Android device). The rest of his advice is very good also!!

Could you post a part number for this "Master Sensor"? That is not a component name that Ford uses - to my knowledge.

Also, please post the codes that are being retrieved from these incidences.

Lastly, if your batteries and/or alternator are malfunctioning, you will fry your FICM in short order.

Mark
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Last edited by bismic; 10-27-2015 at 12:14 PM.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-30-2015, 01:52 AM
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Any chance the foil flap off of the fuel treatment bottle found it's way into the tank and is occasionally plugging the suction tube?

I know, slim chance, but it has happened before.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-31-2015, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks all.

So, my bad... I meant Master Airflow Sensor (maf) (not master sensor...bad proofreader). And go figure, we ran the scanner and it gave code p1102 saying "mass air flow sensor in range but low". (It could be a coincidence (bad replacement MAF) OR this is what's been triggering fouling out these expensive blowouts of injectors and computer and breaking down on side of road. Fyi, we checked the new maf and it was seated correctly.

Anyway, welcome more thoughts if ya have em.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-31-2015, 06:16 PM
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Without data the main two things to verify in my opinion are fuel pressure and good batteries/ alternator. Low voltage kills ficm and low fuel pressure kills injectors.

Egr may be in related to those.

Early 2004 F-250 4x4 CC 6.0


2nd owner, ARP studs 1 at a time, Some parts missing in the exhaust path, BD intercooler hoses, Blue spring, MC filters, Sinister coolant filter, Exhaust manifold gaskets, WARN lockouts, Gold coolant, zoodad mod, autometer boost gauge, high idle mod, Scangauge 2, SCT X3 tuned from KEM, autometer fuel pressure gauge, Archoil 6200 in the fuel, FICM by Ed w/ATLAS40, autometer pyro gauge,'08 Alum Rear Diff cover, 5w-40 Rotella T6 w/ Archoil 9100 in it, zert in the slip joint, harpooned fuel tank, 6.4 banjos


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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 01:06 AM
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The concept of people that can't even see or test the truck doing better than trained mechanics that actually have the truck in their possession is quite amazing in itself! It happens quite often though - so no doubt internet forums are extremely valuable. That being said, your situation is a tough one!!

We almost have to believe that the previous mechanics are competent and are using quality parts (even though that sure sounds questionable with all the "parts changing" that they have been doing). That being said, we aren't getting enough information to really help much (at least that is my opinion anyway)!

Assuming the previous mechanics know their stuff, I wonder about the main engine wiring harness and even the PCM - those are just guesses though! Seems like Ford owes you an answer after all the attempted fixes. I would approach Ford with a concern about your safety in mountain traffic after all their failed attempts to fix the truck. Put it in writing directly to Ford and copy the local dealership(s) that have been doing the work.
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Mark
06 F250 CC SB FX4 Lariat;ARP studs;OEM gaskets;Banks exhaust;DynaTrac Ball joints;Coolant filter;High-Idle mod;RACCCV6000;JimmiJammers;Ravelco;SynchroMax xfer case;Fumoto valve;Harpooned;CPOhighwayProducts toolbox;tracrac;Fox Weatherboots;Wet Okole Seat Covers;BriteBox;Re-flashed;Quadzilla Recon XZT Fuel Press;Blue FPR spring;DashDAQ;PHP FICM;RiffRaff boots;DCPower270AXP;PowerInverter;Rancho7000's;BPD EGR cooler;One-piece HPOP fitting;D-plugs&standpipes;BPD BilletWaterPump;SCT w/ Matts SRL+;ELC Ultra;DuraTracs

Last edited by bismic; 11-01-2015 at 01:14 AM.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 07:39 PM
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If the MAF sensor was bad it would only generally affect early 03-04' models with the inferred EBP flash in which the main player for fuel + boost control is the MAF sensor, and the normally used EBP sensor signal is eliminated from calculations. And even then, when an active MAF sensor goes bad it would either run too lean or run too rich but not cause injector fails.

The later model MAF sensor on trucks like yours is used mainly for EGR flow + control detection and the EBP sensor is used for fuel + boost control.

Like Bismic mentioned, it's a guessing game at this point, that said I have seen MAF sensor codes being caused by turbo vane sticking issues, which can cause low power issues.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-12-2015, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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So, finally got it into the shop. Apparently....PIGTAIL busted/crimped (mass air flow sensor). And $300. Hrmmm.

Not cheap, but this seems too easy. Hrmmmm.
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