Tuning for Altitude and tuning for Cold - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 06:06 AM Thread Starter
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Tuning for Altitude and tuning for Cold

What can be done to compensate for altitude?
I live at 5000 feet.

And what can be done to make the 6 liter run reasonably well with -10F degree air coming into it. I'm not expecting miracles, just trying to find the variables.

How can I find a tuner that will work on these issues for me?

06' F250 Mods:

Performance related:
-K&N E-0780 Air Box, ZooDad Mod
-Garrett Powermax Turbo, CFM+ Smallmouth Intake Manifold
-Blue Fuel Pressure Spring, Large fuel lines from pressure regulator to heads
-MBRP 4" Turbo back exhaust; cat installed
-SCT SF3 Tuner w/SRL custom tunes from Matt at GearheadAutomotivePerformance.com

Reliability Mods:
-Refurbished 50 volt FICM, Eliminated STC fitting, upgraded stand pipes and dummy plugs, Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler, upgraded turbo oil supply and drain
-Oil change rotation; 5k-5W40/5k-15W40/5k-15W40
--Rotella T5 or Valvoline Blue Extreme 5W40, Rotella or NAPA 15W40, Archoil 9100 friction modifier (16 ounces to crank case; 10 ounces to each differential)
--2/3 Qt. tcw3 2 cycle oil per tank Power Service (5 oz. Stanadyne every tank)
-Cooling system flush with Restore and VC-9 @ 73,000 miles w/new thermostat
-Eliminated clunk while sitting at a light (75,000 miles); Lubed rear drive-shaft spline with Ford lubricant; Symptom returned at 100,000 miles...re-lubed at 112,000 miles....wow!! it's so smooth again.

Miscellaneous:
-1/2" shim on carrier bearing mount
-Batteries:
--Original Motorcraft lasted 4 1/2 years
--AutoZone Duralast Gold lasted less than 3 years
---(with 2/0 cables between + terminals)
--Still on 2nd set of Autozone Gold (replaced free)
-Alternator:
--DC Power 185 amp
Future Mods:
-Teflon sway bar bushings
-Moog Ball Joints (originals seem to be holding tight at 108,000 miles; it's just a daily driver, so this seems to make sense)
-Cooling system filter
-OEM HG/ARP studs
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 02:35 PM
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Don't Worry About It

It's not an issue for turbo diesel applications. The relationship between turbo/intake and fueling levels determine A/F ratios. That's an old pre-electronic ignition MPI-fueled gasser issue (carburetors).

So to answer your question - forget about it.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Nadir,

I can see your perspective as a valid one. If I take that view entirely, then the only possible reason for my truck running poorly is a mechanical or sensor issue. And this may be true, however, when the temperatures get down to minus 20 and below and the sensors only begin failing at this low temperature, it's hard to debug the problems, of which there may be many.
I would like to take a more different, and possibly more reliable approach and I'm looking for someone who will entertain me on it.

06' F250 Mods:

Performance related:
-K&N E-0780 Air Box, ZooDad Mod
-Garrett Powermax Turbo, CFM+ Smallmouth Intake Manifold
-Blue Fuel Pressure Spring, Large fuel lines from pressure regulator to heads
-MBRP 4" Turbo back exhaust; cat installed
-SCT SF3 Tuner w/SRL custom tunes from Matt at GearheadAutomotivePerformance.com

Reliability Mods:
-Refurbished 50 volt FICM, Eliminated STC fitting, upgraded stand pipes and dummy plugs, Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler, upgraded turbo oil supply and drain
-Oil change rotation; 5k-5W40/5k-15W40/5k-15W40
--Rotella T5 or Valvoline Blue Extreme 5W40, Rotella or NAPA 15W40, Archoil 9100 friction modifier (16 ounces to crank case; 10 ounces to each differential)
--2/3 Qt. tcw3 2 cycle oil per tank Power Service (5 oz. Stanadyne every tank)
-Cooling system flush with Restore and VC-9 @ 73,000 miles w/new thermostat
-Eliminated clunk while sitting at a light (75,000 miles); Lubed rear drive-shaft spline with Ford lubricant; Symptom returned at 100,000 miles...re-lubed at 112,000 miles....wow!! it's so smooth again.

Miscellaneous:
-1/2" shim on carrier bearing mount
-Batteries:
--Original Motorcraft lasted 4 1/2 years
--AutoZone Duralast Gold lasted less than 3 years
---(with 2/0 cables between + terminals)
--Still on 2nd set of Autozone Gold (replaced free)
-Alternator:
--DC Power 185 amp
Future Mods:
-Teflon sway bar bushings
-Moog Ball Joints (originals seem to be holding tight at 108,000 miles; it's just a daily driver, so this seems to make sense)
-Cooling system filter
-OEM HG/ARP studs
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 01:35 PM
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Probably the best thing in cold temps is to get the trucks coolant up to operating temp if possible, like by blocking the radiator with a piece of cardboard, or mileage suffers greatly. Also having good winterized fuel for the conditions is important too. My truck runs ok in cold temps, and the egt's are incredibly low, even pulling hard, but my performance and mileage are always less in winter, mostly because of the fuel and engine temps. As far as altitude, the turbo and maf and map sensors will/should adjust for that. I'm in a mountainous area and have had no issues with altitude and the tuning, and we see -20f all the time in winter. Even stock tuning should not have issues with altitude and cold if all inputs and outputs are working properly. First thing is make sure your batteries and charging system are up to snuff, as one weak battery can cause issues. And remember, winterized diesel fuel lowers performance if it is no.1 or a mix of 1 and 2.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 06:46 PM
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bustedknuckles, I have altitude issues with my 6.0 as well. When I hit the top of Eisenhower, I can't make up lost speed. If I let the RPM's fall too far, I'm in trouble. I have to use tow/haul and keep some boost built up even if I'm running empty. I've never found anyone who had any answers to that issue. Mine does it with or without tunes in.

As far as cold goes, all my cold issues went away with the latest flash - VXCF9N4.

'05 F350 Amarillo CCSB FX4, Skyjacker 2" coils, 18x9 Moto Metal 951's, 305/65-18 BFG AT K/O's, Bilsteins, Skyjacker dual stabilizers
SCT XCAL3 from Elite Diesel, AEM Brute Force Dry Flow, semi-Zoodad, Steveracer mod, CCV reroute, RCD EGR delete, Autometer Ultralites on the A-pillar
MBRP Turbo-back.
Can you keep up?!?!
Well punk, can ya??
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks boggerman,

When you say your cold start issues went away with the latest flash; what was the flash you had prior?

I had my 06 re-flashed about 2 years ago. It fixed quite a few issues. It seemed to improve the cold start issue, but, didn't eliminate it.


I also still have issues running in extreme cold. When I say extreme cold, I mean less than zero degrees F. The following symptom shows up after it's completely warmed up: It idles fine, and has good power when it starts out from a light, but if I continue to accelerate, after about 5 seconds it starts choking out and missing. I don't think I'm going to fix this problem easily because I think the problem is the extreme cold air cools everything down so much it's like the engine is starting up first time in the morning. I think a cold cover is the only way I'm going to fix this one. A cold cover is a cover that goes over the front grill. It works by forcing most of the intake air through the engine compartment. Normally, this is not necessary, however, when you have zero degree air coming in from the outside, this tends to be too cold to allow combustion to occur. Cold air is good, ice cold air is too good. This is just what I think is happening....

06' F250 Mods:

Performance related:
-K&N E-0780 Air Box, ZooDad Mod
-Garrett Powermax Turbo, CFM+ Smallmouth Intake Manifold
-Blue Fuel Pressure Spring, Large fuel lines from pressure regulator to heads
-MBRP 4" Turbo back exhaust; cat installed
-SCT SF3 Tuner w/SRL custom tunes from Matt at GearheadAutomotivePerformance.com

Reliability Mods:
-Refurbished 50 volt FICM, Eliminated STC fitting, upgraded stand pipes and dummy plugs, Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler, upgraded turbo oil supply and drain
-Oil change rotation; 5k-5W40/5k-15W40/5k-15W40
--Rotella T5 or Valvoline Blue Extreme 5W40, Rotella or NAPA 15W40, Archoil 9100 friction modifier (16 ounces to crank case; 10 ounces to each differential)
--2/3 Qt. tcw3 2 cycle oil per tank Power Service (5 oz. Stanadyne every tank)
-Cooling system flush with Restore and VC-9 @ 73,000 miles w/new thermostat
-Eliminated clunk while sitting at a light (75,000 miles); Lubed rear drive-shaft spline with Ford lubricant; Symptom returned at 100,000 miles...re-lubed at 112,000 miles....wow!! it's so smooth again.

Miscellaneous:
-1/2" shim on carrier bearing mount
-Batteries:
--Original Motorcraft lasted 4 1/2 years
--AutoZone Duralast Gold lasted less than 3 years
---(with 2/0 cables between + terminals)
--Still on 2nd set of Autozone Gold (replaced free)
-Alternator:
--DC Power 185 amp
Future Mods:
-Teflon sway bar bushings
-Moog Ball Joints (originals seem to be holding tight at 108,000 miles; it's just a daily driver, so this seems to make sense)
-Cooling system filter
-OEM HG/ARP studs
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boggerman View Post
bustedknuckles, I have altitude issues with my 6.0 as well.
You don't have "altitude issues." There's something wrong with your truck that becomes more apparent either due to a long pull (up the mountain) or becomes exacerbated at high altitude (after that pull). ANY turbo diesel pickup should be able to romp across the Rockies with a 5-ton trailer behind it, no problem.

You need to find the problem and stop blaming the symptom (altitude).

Same goes for the cold air. The colder the better they should run. At least mine do.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Nadir,

I think your missing my point entirely. I never said there was nothing wrong with the truck. In fact I'm saying exactly the opposite. It's just a little difficult to start in cold weather and runs poorly in very cold weather. I've taken it in to the dealer twice for the same issue and they claim they can't tell that anything is wrong with it. I've been pursuing these issues since I bought it in 06.

By the way, just curious, have you ever run your truck at -20 F? What happens when you romp on it for more than 30 seconds at a time.

06' F250 Mods:

Performance related:
-K&N E-0780 Air Box, ZooDad Mod
-Garrett Powermax Turbo, CFM+ Smallmouth Intake Manifold
-Blue Fuel Pressure Spring, Large fuel lines from pressure regulator to heads
-MBRP 4" Turbo back exhaust; cat installed
-SCT SF3 Tuner w/SRL custom tunes from Matt at GearheadAutomotivePerformance.com

Reliability Mods:
-Refurbished 50 volt FICM, Eliminated STC fitting, upgraded stand pipes and dummy plugs, Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler, upgraded turbo oil supply and drain
-Oil change rotation; 5k-5W40/5k-15W40/5k-15W40
--Rotella T5 or Valvoline Blue Extreme 5W40, Rotella or NAPA 15W40, Archoil 9100 friction modifier (16 ounces to crank case; 10 ounces to each differential)
--2/3 Qt. tcw3 2 cycle oil per tank Power Service (5 oz. Stanadyne every tank)
-Cooling system flush with Restore and VC-9 @ 73,000 miles w/new thermostat
-Eliminated clunk while sitting at a light (75,000 miles); Lubed rear drive-shaft spline with Ford lubricant; Symptom returned at 100,000 miles...re-lubed at 112,000 miles....wow!! it's so smooth again.

Miscellaneous:
-1/2" shim on carrier bearing mount
-Batteries:
--Original Motorcraft lasted 4 1/2 years
--AutoZone Duralast Gold lasted less than 3 years
---(with 2/0 cables between + terminals)
--Still on 2nd set of Autozone Gold (replaced free)
-Alternator:
--DC Power 185 amp
Future Mods:
-Teflon sway bar bushings
-Moog Ball Joints (originals seem to be holding tight at 108,000 miles; it's just a daily driver, so this seems to make sense)
-Cooling system filter
-OEM HG/ARP studs
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-31-2011, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry, Nadir,

I now see that you were directing that post at boggerman.
Do you have a powerstroke?

06' F250 Mods:

Performance related:
-K&N E-0780 Air Box, ZooDad Mod
-Garrett Powermax Turbo, CFM+ Smallmouth Intake Manifold
-Blue Fuel Pressure Spring, Large fuel lines from pressure regulator to heads
-MBRP 4" Turbo back exhaust; cat installed
-SCT SF3 Tuner w/SRL custom tunes from Matt at GearheadAutomotivePerformance.com

Reliability Mods:
-Refurbished 50 volt FICM, Eliminated STC fitting, upgraded stand pipes and dummy plugs, Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler, upgraded turbo oil supply and drain
-Oil change rotation; 5k-5W40/5k-15W40/5k-15W40
--Rotella T5 or Valvoline Blue Extreme 5W40, Rotella or NAPA 15W40, Archoil 9100 friction modifier (16 ounces to crank case; 10 ounces to each differential)
--2/3 Qt. tcw3 2 cycle oil per tank Power Service (5 oz. Stanadyne every tank)
-Cooling system flush with Restore and VC-9 @ 73,000 miles w/new thermostat
-Eliminated clunk while sitting at a light (75,000 miles); Lubed rear drive-shaft spline with Ford lubricant; Symptom returned at 100,000 miles...re-lubed at 112,000 miles....wow!! it's so smooth again.

Miscellaneous:
-1/2" shim on carrier bearing mount
-Batteries:
--Original Motorcraft lasted 4 1/2 years
--AutoZone Duralast Gold lasted less than 3 years
---(with 2/0 cables between + terminals)
--Still on 2nd set of Autozone Gold (replaced free)
-Alternator:
--DC Power 185 amp
Future Mods:
-Teflon sway bar bushings
-Moog Ball Joints (originals seem to be holding tight at 108,000 miles; it's just a daily driver, so this seems to make sense)
-Cooling system filter
-OEM HG/ARP studs
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-01-2011, 01:16 PM
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My 1st Gen starts at zero with no grid heaters and runs balls out any time any where. I don't beat on the comonrail much, but I'm pretty sure it will do the same. No, I don't have a Ford, thank gawd. It's too bad those trucks are out of warranty, because I'd have been taking the service writer for a ride up to where the problem starts not long after buying it if it were mine. Unfortunately, with all the money invested in the goo-gaws listed on your sigs, even selling them will be a huge loss at this time.

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