EGR off in tune or EGR delete. - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
Thread Details Posted by whanner, this thread has received 13 replies and been viewed 113040 times.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
whanner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 345
Points: 35,555
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
EGR off in tune or EGR delete.

What is the difference in having the EGR turned off with a tune vs doing a true EGR delete?

06' F350
I'm not a Diesel Mechanic or Expert. All posts are just guesstimations.
4" Turbo Back Exhaust, 2" lift in front,1" Lift In the Rear, EGT Gauge, ARP Studs.
whanner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 06:10 AM
Senior Member
 
harry6.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Spokane WA. area
Posts: 3,051
Points: 141,208
Thanks: 1,507
Thanked 990 Times in 755 Posts
First let me explain a fully functioning egr valve and cooler so you get a better picture. Hot exhaust gasses are diverted into an egr cooler off the exhaust manifolds, then they are cooled by the egr cooler, and the flow of the cooled exhaust gasses into the intake manifold is controlled by the egr valve.

Egr off in a tune, turns off the egr valve. No exhaust gasses will enter the intake manifold.

However, with the egr turned off in a tune, and "still retaining the egr cooler", you will still have the same "hot exhaust pressure gasses" that drive the turbine wheel of the turbo, pressurizing and dead heading in the egr cooler.

Egr delete, you are removing the egr cooler, and rerouting a coolant bypass plumbing pipe in it's place. No more exhaust gasses deadheading into anything.


Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
harry6.0 is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
Member
Threadstarter
 
whanner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 345
Points: 35,555
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Thanks Harry...Can anyone with a delete chime in with your results? I am hoping this will help with temps and fan running a lot when towing. My coolers are not plugged but our rv weighs around 13k so the truck has quite the load....just want to help keep it cooler. The less the fan runs the better our mileage will be.

06' F350
I'm not a Diesel Mechanic or Expert. All posts are just guesstimations.
4" Turbo Back Exhaust, 2" lift in front,1" Lift In the Rear, EGT Gauge, ARP Studs.
whanner is offline  
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
harry6.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Spokane WA. area
Posts: 3,051
Points: 141,208
Thanks: 1,507
Thanked 990 Times in 755 Posts
When you delete the egr cooler, and still use factory programming, the truck will actually lose some power and be in a mild detuned state. This is because a functional egr system is designed to work with the turbo and fuel program mapping with stock tuning. Custom tuning can bring everything back into proper function with an egr delete, and a using an SCT X3 type tuner with a custom heavy tow tune will make the truck run very well.

A functional egr system on a diesel is designed to help lower peak combustion temps in the cylinders to help control the formation of nitrogen oxide gasses(NOX). NOX is formed at combustion temps above 2500F, but this only happens for a split second and will be dramatically cooled by the time it exits into the exhaust manifold. The drawback of an egr system in a diesel is it causes hotter intake air and bad carbon buildup in the intake manifold tract and intake valves due to the mixture of exhaust and oily pcv gasses.

The positive of retaining egr is that it keeps high combustion temps and peak pressures lower in the combustion chamber, this is because egr is an inert gas(one that is depleted of oxygen). Egr gas is a filler that takes up some the space of the oxygen entering the combustion chamber. By doing so it lowers the formation of NOX, which is the only real reason we have it on all modern diesels, as they have not figured out any other way to control NOX formation better to date.

You can also just block off the egr cooler from the exhaust gasses entering into it by using a stainless block off insert disc plate in the y-pipe inlet to the egr cooler like the one Elite diesel sells. This involves less work and less cost to achieve the same results while still retaining the egr cooler, the cooler then just acts like an additional small radiator for coolant but has no exhaust gasses flowing through it.

The well known secret to obtaining the best performance from a diesel engine is airflow. When you have the proper cooled airflow matched with the proper timing and fuel delivery exiting into a free flowing exhaust, you get a very good running truck. Will it run cooler under heavy loads than a truck running with egr? In most cases yes, this is due to the cooling system no longer having to work at getting rid of the egr cooler temps which can be in the 1100-1200F range. It also helps the coolant itself maintain a better condition as its not subjected to those temps. In a way you have slightly enlarged your cooling system with an egr delete.

With proper tuning, a non egr truck can burn clean without any smoke, pull heavy loads and maintain proper fluid and exhaust temps. Just the formation of NOX may be an issue to our emission laws.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
harry6.0 is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-06-2012, 05:09 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 721
Points: 51,358
Thanks: 51
Thanked 140 Times in 115 Posts
Higher pressure turbos have been known to push open EGR valves that were just "turned off".
lenzhotrod is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-07-2012, 04:00 AM
Eddy
 
Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 85
Points: 22,212
Thanks: 72
Thanked 44 Times in 28 Posts
Garage
This is something I'm looking to do in the next couple weeks. What I'm concerned about is that it's possible with my truck being a 06. I will probably throw a light if I remove the EGR valve. I'm looking at using custom diesel's delete kit but leaving the EGR valve in place. I've read here somewhere that could be done. Plus it would still look stock. I will be adding the SCT Tuner but wonder if that would cause a problem? I hear the EGR valve will still open/close and could cause a problem. Could someone chime in on this. thanks in advance.

2006 F-350 CC, LB, SRW, Lariet 5sp Auto. Burgandy Exterior with Tan Leather Interior. 4" Exhaust turbo back. Studded with ARP bolts 6/15/2013 with OEM Gaskets, SCT Custom tunes by Kem Performance, Isspro gauges, Blue spring kit upgrade. Coolant filter, Afe pro guard 7 stage 2 air intake.
Eddy is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-08-2012, 03:33 PM
Boost Junkie
 
mygt8a4re's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bradenton, Fl
Posts: 122
Points: 27,883
Thanks: 16
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Garage
Send a message via AIM to mygt8a4re
I have an 05 and didnt get a CEL. The CEL is from the disconnected plug at the EGR valve, not from removing the EGR components. For those that get the CEL before getting thier SCT can easily keep the valve plugged in and have the valve zip tied off to the side. I keep my EGR valve in its stock location andd have it turned off with the SCT. I like that it has a "factory" appearence and it isnt hurting anything being there with the rest of the EGR system deleted.

05' f350 DRW
Mods: ARP head studs, Black onyx HG's, 4" turbo back exh w/ 6" tip, AFE Magnumforce ProDryS, RCD EGR delete, SCT Innovative tunes, Edge Insight w/ EGT probe, CCV mod, Dfuser coolant filter, Amsoil framerail oil filter, GoGo Diesel DD mod solenoid, Springtech drop shackles, Recon smoked cab lights, Recon smoked fender lights, Recon light bar, Smoked tail lights & 3rd brake light, DeVries custom emblems, CAP 7pc billet grille, Archoil AR9100 & AR6200 addatives.
Ford updates: STC HPOP fitting, Blue FPR spring kit, turbo feed & drain tubes, oil cooler, Standpipes & dummy plugs.

I wouldnt have to manage my anger if you would just manage your stupidity!
mygt8a4re is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mygt8a4re For this addition to TDG:
Eddy (09-09-2012)
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-20-2012, 09:57 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Warrensburg, Il
Posts: 244
Points: 18,008
Thanks: 38
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Does anyone make a dummy plug to connect to the egr wire to "trick" it into reading ok?

PennyPinchingPowerStroke is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-22-2012, 03:47 AM
Senior Member
 
harry6.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Spokane WA. area
Posts: 3,051
Points: 141,208
Thanks: 1,507
Thanked 990 Times in 755 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyPinchingPowerStroke View Post
Does anyone make a dummy plug to connect to the egr wire to "trick" it into reading ok?
If your talking about an electrical signal fooler that attaches to the egr valve connector to give a false signal like it's working, no I have never heard of any device like that for the 6.0.

Even if there was such a device, it would be no different than just leaving the egr valve plugged in but not mounted into the intake manifold.

The problem is, without custom tuning to remap turbo operation and fuel delivery to the non flowing egr system it still won't run right, this is because you have other sensors, such as the mass air flow sensor and map sensors "detecting" airflow and manifold pressure "differences" that are "different" on operational egr and non operational egr.

These differences in pressures and flow effect how fuel and boost is controlled by the pcm. When egr is no longer detected, pcm commands to a fail safe lower power level, by reducing fuel delivery and boost pressures on stock tuned trucks.

Even if you don't get a check engine light, you still can have a pending fault code stored in the pcm. However, without operational egr you do not need as much boost pressure to obtain same as stock power, or higher power levels, as you no longer have diluted intake air. Just the fuel and boost needs to be readjusted to match this new way of breathing.

Hope I didn't confuse you too much,

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
harry6.0 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to harry6.0 For this addition to TDG:
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-22-2012, 01:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Weld engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle of the Mitten, MI
Posts: 1,324
Points: 48,123
Thanks: 866
Thanked 506 Times in 401 Posts
Garage


Guys Harry is right. I ran my truck for 8 months with no tuner and an egr delete. If an engine is running expecting something that is turned off it won't run perfect.

I finally bought an SCT with some tunes with egr deleted in them. Mileage was the most noticeably improvement but faster turbo spool and better boost PSI under load. I run the stock tune and also my tow tune. The economy tune is only slightly better than stock so I just stick with stock most of the time. If you do a delete budget for an SCT. I'm glad I did.

Wes

Early 2004 F-250 4x4 CC 6.0


2nd owner, ARP studs 1 at a time, Some parts missing in the exhaust path, BD intercooler hoses, Blue spring, MC filters, Sinister coolant filter, Exhaust manifold gaskets, WARN lockouts, Gold coolant, zoodad mod, autometer boost gauge, high idle mod, Scangauge 2, SCT X3 tuned from KEM, autometer fuel pressure gauge, Archoil 6200 in the fuel, FICM by Ed w/ATLAS40, autometer pyro gauge,'08 Alum Rear Diff cover, 5w-40 Rotella T6 w/ Archoil 9100 in it, zert in the slip joint, harpooned fuel tank, 6.4 banjos


Not a diesel mechanic in real life but I play one on the Internet
Weld engineer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Weld engineer For this addition to TDG:
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did EGR Delete, new oil cooler, exhaust, and tune...wow! HwyStar 2003-2007 6.0L Power Stroke 8 05-08-2010 08:32 PM
New ford 6.4 owner...tune? dpf delete?when? 1jeep 2008-2010 6.4L Power Stroke 12 10-29-2009 09:51 PM
DPF delete without tune? ipkyss 2008-2010 6.4L Engine Tuner Forum 10 10-23-2009 11:49 PM
DPF Delete Tune bcjag72 2008-2010 6.4L Engine Tuner Forum 6 05-05-2008 01:02 AM
Innovative Diesel DPF DELETE TUNE KIT... 2008TTCC 2008-2010 6.4L Engine Tuner Forum 34 03-20-2008 01:43 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome