Having some issues with new to me 97 7.3 - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-15-2014, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Having some issues with new to me 97 7.3

Ok, So I bought this truck(97 f-250, 7.3, 5 speed) knowing it needed a clutch. It was hard to start because of a worn bushing on the master cyl shaft linkage was worn. I pulled the cpp connector and jumped the two wires and it tried to crank when the ignition switch was in the run position. That is not supposed to happen right?
Another thing is, they couldn't get it started when I was there because the starter wouldn't engage the flywheel. It was all working fine before I brought it in. What all could they have done wrong so that the starter wouldn't engage?

Thanks for any advice.
The shop still has it...:trying to figure out the issue with the starter.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-16-2014, 06:53 AM
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So first things first. Have you resolved the issue with the wiring at the clutch switch? If you have, have you checked the circuit to make sure that when you turn the key to the start position you are getting power to the starter solenoid?

If you have a functional circuit, and the starter is not spinning, try another starter. If the starter spins but does not disengage, remove the starter and check the Bendix drive. If the Bendix drive doesn't move the gear forward, replace the Bendix drive or the starter, if it does work, then check that the starter is installed in the correct location. You can also check the engagement distance from the mounting flange on the starter to the extended position of the Bendix drive and then compare the depth of the flywheel ring gear to the mounting face on the transmission. If all that checks out, circuit is good, starter is doing what it is supposed to, then you've got something mechanical related to the parts as they were installed.

If the shop changed the flywheel completely, or replaced your ring gear if it was worn, this could be an issue if the wrong ring gear or flywheel was installed. Some times it is possible to get gears of the same diameter with different tooth counts and they will not allow the starter to engage as a result.

Final thing to check would be that the engine will turn over. Sounds crazy, but I've seen guys use the wrong hardware on flywheels, clutches, bell housings, starters, and end up with a bolt that locks up the whole engine.

If it ran before, it will run again, ask about the stuff I mentioned, or check it yourself, but there is an answer in there.

The Current Truck (Oct-2013 to Present):
1999 (Early) F-350 Lariat, CCLB, SRW, Black/Tan

7.3L Powerstroke, 4R100, 4x4, 3.73, 37x13.50-18s, '05 Axle Swap, 6" Fabtech lift, GTP38 "D66" turbo upgrade, SCT 4-position chip with custom tuning by me, Straight Piped 4" down pipe through 5" dual stacks, N-Fab full length triple steps, Pro-Tech cab guard and tool box, louvered 5th wheel gate, Hella 500 Fog and Driving lamps, much more to come...
The one I'll miss, (Mar-2009 to Jan-2014):
2000 Excursion XLT 4x4

6.8L V-10, 4R100, 4.30, 285/75-18, 271whp / 388wtq
The one I won't, (Jul-2005 to Sep-2012):
2005 F-350 XLT, CCLB, SRW, 4x4 FX4

6.0L PSD, ZF-6S650, 3.73, 35x12.5-18, 4.5" Lift
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-16-2014, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdahoF350 View Post
So first things first. Have you resolved the issue with the wiring at the clutch switch? If you have, have you checked the circuit to make sure that when you turn the key to the start position you are getting power to the starter solenoid?
I haven't had the ability to work on much of anything yet with it. The starter spins fine, but when I jump the two wires at the cop with the ignition in the run position it spins the starter. That's why I was asking about the possibility of a bad ignition switch. I bought the the truck last Saturday and it had no issues starting or running...besides the havering to push the clutch thru the floor for it to start. The guy at the shop also jumped the solenoid on the fender well and the starter just spun. Almost to me sounded like it was held back by something, But not completly sure.

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Originally Posted by IdahoF350 View Post
if you have a functional circuit, and the starter is not spinning, try another starter. If the starter spins but does not disengage, remove the starter and check the Bendix drive. If the Bendix drive doesn't move the gear forward, replace the Bendix drive or the starter, if it does work, then check that the starter is installed in the correct location. You can also check the engagement distance from the mounting flange on the starter to the extended position of the Bendix drive and then compare the depth of the flywheel ring gear to the mounting face on the transmission. If all that checks out, circuit is good, starter is doing what it is supposed to, then you've got something mechanical related to the parts as they were installed.

If the shop changed the flywheel completely, or replaced your ring gear if it was worn, this could be an issue if the wrong ring gear or flywheel was installed. Some times it is possible to get gears of the same diameter with different tooth counts and they will not allow the starter to engage as a result.
They replaced the flywheel completly, whenever I do clutches I do rear mains(majority of the time), pilot bushing/bearing, flywheel, clutch disc, PP, throw out bearing, and slave or cable.
I was thinking maybe they got the wrong flywheel. The truck already had been converted to the single mass flywheel, and I talked to the tec that did the work and he said the matched to flywheels up and they were the same

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Originally Posted by IdahoF350 View Post
Final thing to check would be that the engine will turn over. Sounds crazy, but I've seen guys use the wrong hardware on flywheels, clutches, bell housings, starters, and end up with a bolt that locks up the whole engine.
I thought maybe that the flywheel bolts were too long, but if he used the sane bolts and it was the same size flywheel I would think bolts wouldn't be an issue, But idk . The shop still has it so hopefully they will figure it out. The trans shop I took it to has been around for 25-30 years .
They seem to do good work.

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If it ran before, it will run again, ask about the stuff I mentioned, or check it yourself, but there is an answer in there.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-16-2014, 05:31 PM
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Well, you can check the ignition switch with a test light or multimeter. You'll need a wiring diagram for the switch, if the start circuit goes hot in run replace the switch. If it tests good, check the start solenoid(s) - on some trucks there I one at the fender and one at the starter, not that familiar with the 97 7.3 trucks, but the 7.5 gas engines were like that.

The Current Truck (Oct-2013 to Present):
1999 (Early) F-350 Lariat, CCLB, SRW, Black/Tan

7.3L Powerstroke, 4R100, 4x4, 3.73, 37x13.50-18s, '05 Axle Swap, 6" Fabtech lift, GTP38 "D66" turbo upgrade, SCT 4-position chip with custom tuning by me, Straight Piped 4" down pipe through 5" dual stacks, N-Fab full length triple steps, Pro-Tech cab guard and tool box, louvered 5th wheel gate, Hella 500 Fog and Driving lamps, much more to come...
The one I'll miss, (Mar-2009 to Jan-2014):
2000 Excursion XLT 4x4

6.8L V-10, 4R100, 4.30, 285/75-18, 271whp / 388wtq
The one I won't, (Jul-2005 to Sep-2012):
2005 F-350 XLT, CCLB, SRW, 4x4 FX4

6.0L PSD, ZF-6S650, 3.73, 35x12.5-18, 4.5" Lift
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-16-2014, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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Last edited by Coreycox91; 02-16-2014 at 05:49 PM.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-16-2014, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdahoF350 View Post
Well, you can check the ignition switch with a test light or multimeter. You'll need a wiring diagram for the switch, if the start circuit goes hot in run replace the switch. If it tests good, check the start solenoid(s) - on some trucks there I one at the fender and one at the starter, not that familiar with the 97 7.3 trucks, but the 7.5 gas engines were like that.


Jumping the clutch position switch with the ignition in the run position, it turns the starter to run. But before all this happened it didn't do that. But when that happened I thought maybe the ignition switch was a problem. So I planned on replacing it when I get it back.
It does have a solenoid on the fender by the passengers battery.

The bendix solenoid isn't energized seperatly from the starter gear right? Example: The starter will run when jumped but th ignition switch has to be in start position to energize the bendix gear....
Just a thought I had.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 03:31 AM
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The Bendix drive is an inertial device on the starter motor shaft. It moves the gear forward into the ring gear when the starter spins. Once the flywheel spins the starter gear faster than the starter motor the starter gear retracts back into the starter.

To start the truck there is a clutch switch and a neutral safety switch. Both switches must complete the circuit to allow te starter to activate. On a lot of newer: Read 1980-Current Fords, there is a little bracket on the clutch pedal and the switch is mounted to the bracket, this is to keep the wiring from being over worked. Well, the little bracket on the pedal is usually just there with a little hole in it about where te switch plunger contacts it. Well, that little hole is supposed to have a little rubber contact bumper in it. So, depress the pedal and find the bracket and make sure that it's being depressed far enough. If the bumper is gone, measure the additional amount the plunger depresses from the bracket with the clutch pedal fully depressed, may take two people, but find a push in bumper on the help racks at a part store and you won't feel like you have to push the pedal through the floor any longer.

The Current Truck (Oct-2013 to Present):
1999 (Early) F-350 Lariat, CCLB, SRW, Black/Tan

7.3L Powerstroke, 4R100, 4x4, 3.73, 37x13.50-18s, '05 Axle Swap, 6" Fabtech lift, GTP38 "D66" turbo upgrade, SCT 4-position chip with custom tuning by me, Straight Piped 4" down pipe through 5" dual stacks, N-Fab full length triple steps, Pro-Tech cab guard and tool box, louvered 5th wheel gate, Hella 500 Fog and Driving lamps, much more to come...
The one I'll miss, (Mar-2009 to Jan-2014):
2000 Excursion XLT 4x4

6.8L V-10, 4R100, 4.30, 285/75-18, 271whp / 388wtq
The one I won't, (Jul-2005 to Sep-2012):
2005 F-350 XLT, CCLB, SRW, 4x4 FX4

6.0L PSD, ZF-6S650, 3.73, 35x12.5-18, 4.5" Lift
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Originally Posted by IdahoF350 View Post
The Bendix drive is an inertial device on the starter motor shaft. It moves the gear forward into the ring gear when the starter spins. Once the flywheel spins the starter gear faster than the starter motor the starter gear retracts back into the starter.

To start the truck there is a clutch switch and a neutral safety switch. Both switches must complete the circuit to allow te starter to activate. On a lot of newer: Read 1980-Current Fords, there is a little bracket on the clutch pedal and the switch is mounted to the bracket, this is to keep the wiring from being over worked. Well, the little bracket on the pedal is usually just there with a little hole in it about where te switch plunger contacts it. Well, that little hole is supposed to have a little rubber contact bumper in it. So, depress the pedal and find the bracket and make sure that it's being depressed far enough. If the bumper is gone, measure the additional amount the plunger depresses from the bracket with the clutch pedal fully depressed, may take two people, but find a push in bumper on the help racks at a part store and you won't feel like you have to push the pedal through the floor any longer.

I will look into the bumper thing once I get the truck. I didn't realize that manuals had a neutral and clutch switch. The starter spins it just won't engage the flywheel. You can jump the solenoid on the fender well and it spins the starter over as well. I haven't heard from the shop if the flywheel is the issue or the starter.

After looking on Mitchell tonight, it appears that the starter is bad.

I put a new bushing in the clutch pedal, it broke with the first stroke of the pedal. Once I get it home I'll fix it diffrently.
And put a new ignition switch in it.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
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Update: The shop didn't get the starter flush with the mounting area. The bottom was all the way tight but the top had about an inch gap between the starter flange and mounting plate. They got it back together and it started right up! I still have the issue with the CPP unplugged and not working and the ignition switch cranking in run when the CPP wires are jumped. But those should be fixed tomorrow! The master cylinder rod end has a lot of play, The shop said that's why the CPP won't work correctly. I've read some post about drilling the stud out and putting a bolt and a bushing in there. Is this the best way to solve the issue.....besides buying a new clutch pedal linkage and master cylinder?

Thanks!
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-19-2014, 04:44 AM
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If the switch is like a brake pedal switch, slid over the rod and riding on the pin on the pedal, it needs a little play, otherwise the switch would never move. Sounds like a bad CPP switch and possible bad ignition switch. Good deal, sounds like you're getting it back in shape.

The Current Truck (Oct-2013 to Present):
1999 (Early) F-350 Lariat, CCLB, SRW, Black/Tan

7.3L Powerstroke, 4R100, 4x4, 3.73, 37x13.50-18s, '05 Axle Swap, 6" Fabtech lift, GTP38 "D66" turbo upgrade, SCT 4-position chip with custom tuning by me, Straight Piped 4" down pipe through 5" dual stacks, N-Fab full length triple steps, Pro-Tech cab guard and tool box, louvered 5th wheel gate, Hella 500 Fog and Driving lamps, much more to come...
The one I'll miss, (Mar-2009 to Jan-2014):
2000 Excursion XLT 4x4

6.8L V-10, 4R100, 4.30, 285/75-18, 271whp / 388wtq
The one I won't, (Jul-2005 to Sep-2012):
2005 F-350 XLT, CCLB, SRW, 4x4 FX4

6.0L PSD, ZF-6S650, 3.73, 35x12.5-18, 4.5" Lift
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