Help! Intermittently dropping cylinders! - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Help! Intermittently dropping cylinders!

My truck has developed a problem as follows:
Several weeks ago (it happened to be a 105° day, unusual around here) I went to leave work in the evening, the truck started and ran just fine for ~45 seconds, then suddenly ran very rough (sounds like only 4 cylinders), with barely enough power to move. CEL was on during the rough running. After 20 seconds or so it went back to normal and ran fine the rest of the day. There was a stored code for P1280 Injection Control Pressure OORL, but it may have been from when I was messing with the ICP sensor hooking up gauges a month before. About 2 weeks later (also on a very hot day) the same thing happened. Since then I have had a few other problems (oil dipstick tube came loose and lost all oil). I changed the driver's side valve cover and UVC harnesses also, and the original units tested and looked perfect.

Recently the problem happens within 1 minute of starting the truck every time, and also lasts longer (up to 5 minutes). When it has lasted a long time, it sets code P0340, CPS malfunction. I replaced the CPS, but the problem persists.

Any ideas? One person has suggested replacing the IDM. Where is the best place to get one? Are the IDMs different for different PCM versions? Is there any test (Autoenginuity, etc) which will tell me if it is the IDM?

Thanks,
Michael Pliska

ISSPRO Engineering Manager

1995 F350 PSD Crew Cab Dually, 271k miles
10 ISSPRO Prototype Performax™ gauges in Pillar & Overhead pods & sitting on dash, Tymar Intake, Gutted EBPV, Tymar 3x4" downpipe, Tymar 5" exhaust, Cat's hiding in the shed, Baby Swamps, Swamps tunes, Tricumulator springs and Accumulator Valve, Tru-Cool 4590 Trans Cooler, Lock-Right Locker
1998 S&S 9.5' slide-in camper
32' enclosed tag trailer with 2 drag cars (73 Vega Super-Gas & 74 Vega ET Super-Pro)
1992 GMC Typhoon, 1973 Chevy Blazer with Pontiac 400, 1973 Trans-Am 455
2000 VW Jetta TDI - Kerma tune, Der Chimera Stage II Clutch
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-29-2007, 05:19 PM
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Bummer about your problem. I would start with the UVC as you did as well. Any IDM will work for your truck. You have an IDM 100 which has the lowest output of all IDM's. An IDM 120 out of a SD will be a step up. See if you can borrow an IDM from a friend or someting to see if that is the problem. An OBS IDM is far easier to get to than a SD.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Latest update:
I bought AutoEnginuity PC Scan Tool to run more tests. Running Cylinder Contribution test showed no problems, but was unable to run this test while the problem was actually occurring (the test would not run until oil temp was above a certain level, and I could not get the problem to recur at that time).

Running Injector Buzz Test: Inconsistent results. Once it passed okay, other times it showed some or all of the following faults:
P0261 Cyl #1 Injection Circuit Low
P0262 Cyl #1 Injection Circuit High
P1271 Cyl #1 High to Low Side Open
P1273 Cyl #3 High to Low Side Open
P1293 Injector High Side Open Bank #1

I have not yet changed the UVC harnesses on bank #1 (passenger's side). I did notice that there was a lot of oil in the outside connector for cylinders #1 & #3 (the whole cavity was filled with oil). I cleaned it out, along with the terminals, and applied dielectric grease. I had noticed that the whole bank's injector circuits would show ~4k ohms continuity to ground when the front connector was in place, and zero continuity to ground when that connector was removed (which suggests some leakage on the #1-#3 UVC harness). I measured the resistance across the injectors themselves, from the IDM connection, and found around 3.0 ohms for the driver's side (which has new UVC harnesses), and around 4.0 ohms for the passenger's side.

Other pertinent items I have noticed:
1) I have now run the engine with the problem occurring for up to 10 minutes, with no fault codes being set. I suspect my previous fault codes were unrelated to this problem or a secondary issue (possibly caused by the rough running?)
2) When the problem occurs, the CEL turns on a just BEFORE the engine starts running rough, which makes me think it is in some sort of limp home mode.
3) When the problem occurs, the left bank shows a increase in EGT just to idle (up around 350°F for idling compared to 220-250 normally). The post-turbo pyro shows a normal temperature.
4) I can completely duplicate the way the engine runs during the problem (except for the CEL turning on) by disconnecting BOTH injector harnesses on the passenger's side valve cover (causing it to run on 4 cylinders). This leads me to believe that the IDM is turning the right bank completely off when the problem happens.
5) Not sure if it is relevant or just a coincidence, but I have never had the problem occur when the engine was up to normal operating temperature. It always occurs within the first few minutes of startup.

Is it possible that the slight discontinuity in the UVC harnesses is causing the IDM to turn off that bank, without setting a code? Or is my IDM just going nuts? A friend is shipping his extra IDM to me to test, but it may not arrive by the weekend.

I am trying desperately to get this thing running in time for the NHRDA race this Saturday (I am sitting in 4th place in points). I also need it for testing our new gauge line (although I am getting plenty of gauge testing while troubleshooting this stupid problem!).

A local wrecking yard has a '99 IDM for $275. Is this a good price?

Thanks,
Michael Pliska

ISSPRO Engineering Manager

1995 F350 PSD Crew Cab Dually, 271k miles
10 ISSPRO Prototype Performax™ gauges in Pillar & Overhead pods & sitting on dash, Tymar Intake, Gutted EBPV, Tymar 3x4" downpipe, Tymar 5" exhaust, Cat's hiding in the shed, Baby Swamps, Swamps tunes, Tricumulator springs and Accumulator Valve, Tru-Cool 4590 Trans Cooler, Lock-Right Locker
1998 S&S 9.5' slide-in camper
32' enclosed tag trailer with 2 drag cars (73 Vega Super-Gas & 74 Vega ET Super-Pro)
1992 GMC Typhoon, 1973 Chevy Blazer with Pontiac 400, 1973 Trans-Am 455
2000 VW Jetta TDI - Kerma tune, Der Chimera Stage II Clutch
NRA member and certified firearms instructor, GOA Life member, IDPA member
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 08:41 PM
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Two things, replace the UVC on the passanger side... That will fix your rough running issue... Second... Get me my new contoler... I need more gauges!!!

01 F-250 SC PSD,210k,16 Isspro Gauges, AFE-2,CCV Mod,IAH delete,map reg,Modded H2e, 6.0 IC, GTS Hybrid injectors, Studs, 910 Valve springs, Forged rods Water injection,Swamps tuned, MBRP 4" dual's, Aero, 6" tip's, 100 axl tank, 4" Revtek lift, 37-14.50-17 TOYO MT's 469hp and 1068tq...

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-02-2007, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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I've got your controller sitting here in the office. When can you make it into town? Remember we'll need about an hour to change harness ends (probably less if it goes smoothly).

ISSPRO Engineering Manager

1995 F350 PSD Crew Cab Dually, 271k miles
10 ISSPRO Prototype Performax™ gauges in Pillar & Overhead pods & sitting on dash, Tymar Intake, Gutted EBPV, Tymar 3x4" downpipe, Tymar 5" exhaust, Cat's hiding in the shed, Baby Swamps, Swamps tunes, Tricumulator springs and Accumulator Valve, Tru-Cool 4590 Trans Cooler, Lock-Right Locker
1998 S&S 9.5' slide-in camper
32' enclosed tag trailer with 2 drag cars (73 Vega Super-Gas & 74 Vega ET Super-Pro)
1992 GMC Typhoon, 1973 Chevy Blazer with Pontiac 400, 1973 Trans-Am 455
2000 VW Jetta TDI - Kerma tune, Der Chimera Stage II Clutch
NRA member and certified firearms instructor, GOA Life member, IDPA member
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Joe called this one right. It was a burned up connector on the #1 & #3 valve cover gasket connection, which explains the oil leakage into the top side of that connection. I guess the IDM shuts down that whole bank intermittently without setting a code if it senses such a problem. This seems like a shortcoming in the IDM or PCM software, but at least it's finally fixed! I'll bet it shuts down because it sees continuity between the high voltage and ground, kind of like a home GFCI. Probably a liability issue (don't want to electrocute anyone).

Joe,
When can you make it in for a controller change? You ought to see the pointer movement on the next generation of software, it REALLY screams!

Thanks,
Michael

ISSPRO Engineering Manager

1995 F350 PSD Crew Cab Dually, 271k miles
10 ISSPRO Prototype Performax™ gauges in Pillar & Overhead pods & sitting on dash, Tymar Intake, Gutted EBPV, Tymar 3x4" downpipe, Tymar 5" exhaust, Cat's hiding in the shed, Baby Swamps, Swamps tunes, Tricumulator springs and Accumulator Valve, Tru-Cool 4590 Trans Cooler, Lock-Right Locker
1998 S&S 9.5' slide-in camper
32' enclosed tag trailer with 2 drag cars (73 Vega Super-Gas & 74 Vega ET Super-Pro)
1992 GMC Typhoon, 1973 Chevy Blazer with Pontiac 400, 1973 Trans-Am 455
2000 VW Jetta TDI - Kerma tune, Der Chimera Stage II Clutch
NRA member and certified firearms instructor, GOA Life member, IDPA member
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 04:35 PM
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I've changed those dang things out so many times!! Thank goodness I don't have to do that anymore

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 04:36 PM
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I've been telling you the connector for a week now...

I dont know when I can get down there... We are headed home this weekend but going over HWY 2 to 97...

01 F-250 SC PSD,210k,16 Isspro Gauges, AFE-2,CCV Mod,IAH delete,map reg,Modded H2e, 6.0 IC, GTS Hybrid injectors, Studs, 910 Valve springs, Forged rods Water injection,Swamps tuned, MBRP 4" dual's, Aero, 6" tip's, 100 axl tank, 4" Revtek lift, 37-14.50-17 TOYO MT's 469hp and 1068tq...

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowaholic
I've changed those dang things out so many times!! Thank goodness I don't have to do that anymore

Yup... they looked dam near brand new when I pull the injectors out of that truck...:sofa

01 F-250 SC PSD,210k,16 Isspro Gauges, AFE-2,CCV Mod,IAH delete,map reg,Modded H2e, 6.0 IC, GTS Hybrid injectors, Studs, 910 Valve springs, Forged rods Water injection,Swamps tuned, MBRP 4" dual's, Aero, 6" tip's, 100 axl tank, 4" Revtek lift, 37-14.50-17 TOYO MT's 469hp and 1068tq...

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-03-2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIPSD
Yup... they looked dam near brand new when I STOLE the injectors out of that truck...:sofa
Yep, 2 weeks old at that point on both sides

2007 Dodge 3500 MegaCab Laramie CTD 4x4 Patroit Blue Just a bunch of Go fast parts and programing
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