High Flow fuel pumps - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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High Flow fuel pumps

What is everyone running? We did 2 stock pumps in tandom at BTS but I'm dropping 40lbs of fuel pressure at WOT. I need to figure out the best way to solve this, I'll let the system we installed on the truck incase of a failure I'll be able to get where I need to be.

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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 04:32 AM
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I don't have any experience with them but I think most upgrade to an Aeromotive pump if changing from the stock one.
What does your current system consist of?
By tandem do you mean both pumps drawing from a 1/2" hose or dual 5/16" then back into a 1/2" hose? The reason I ask is with 300 hp I cant imagine 2 pumps not keeping up. Maybe you have a restriction somewhere between the pumps and the fuel inlet to the heads.

I recently installed a complete fuel system on my OBS and with stage 1 injectors I don't drop more than 2 psi at WOT. This is with 1 stock SD pump.

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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Dog
What is everyone running? We did 2 stock pumps in tandom at BTS but I'm dropping 40lbs of fuel pressure at WOT. I need to figure out the best way to solve this, I'll let the system we installed on the truck incase of a failure I'll be able to get where I need to be.
What you need is a lift pump feeding a high volume pump. Talk to Dennis at ITPdiesel.com. He can help you.
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 12:18 PM
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Aeromotive 11108 Marine feed my BD's! Give me a call I can tell you about my setup if you interested.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 12:28 PM
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Are there any advantages to running two stock pumps in parallel?

Dual fuel pickups into stock pumps into single bank of cylinder heads into single regulator into single return.

Logic goes like this:

If the stock pump is good to 70+psi for stock injectors, then I think it would take a whole lotta fuel (at least double) to drop pressure when feeding half the cylinders.

Of course, I have no idea what your injectors flow and since I'm not looking at big squirt sticks then :shrug:

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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 01:02 PM
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my thoughts exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainredtruck
Are there any advantages to running two stock pumps in parallel?

Dual fuel pickups into stock pumps into single bank of cylinder heads into single regulator into single return.

Logic goes like this:

If the stock pump is good to 70+psi for stock injectors, then I think it would take a whole lotta fuel (at least double) to drop pressure when feeding half the cylinders.

Of course, I have no idea what your injectors flow and since I'm not looking at big squirt sticks then :shrug:

prt

Thats what I was thinking. Theoretically with 2 pumps you should be able to supply 2X the fuel volume at the same pressure. Give us a detaied description of how your fuel system is routed with line/fitting sizes. I would bet the problem lies there.

I am not wanting to talk you out of a new pump or a lift pump, I think they are great - just a little pricey.
I was trying to
Quote:
figure out the best way to solve this

Eric
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B codes, head studs, Comp 910 valve springs, stock turbo w/ 1.00 turbine housing
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Quadzilla Commander, electric fuel system w/ regulated return
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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First off, don't pay any attention to my sig. as it no longer applies, I've just got home and haven't updated. :


The fuel systems that BTS has used and is useing on thier trucks are done like this:

In tank filter mod.
External filter
Replace the steel lines to a new SD fuel pump
Plumb the new pump directly into the existing pump
Wire them together


The new pump and the old pump are using the same size fuel line as stock, just doubling the preasure
This setup has worked well for them in the past, just won 't seem to work on mine. We bypassed the external filter thinking that was the problem but it did not help.
We really needed to get home and couldn't fool with it any longer at thier shop.

I'm now running 530's and the fuel preasure will drop from 70psi to 20psi at WOT. ( this is observed on the dyno, watching the fuel preasure gauge under the hood)


Thanks for all the help and info, Keep it coming!!

'00 cc f 350 a few mods, and a bts tranny.

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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 05:58 PM
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Ok first off you are probably using way too much fuel be using the stock fuel lines and regualtor system. I am not speaking from experience but just a good possibility.
The other thing that comes to mind is the check valves and screens in the fuel inlet fittings. If one or both of these is plugged it would not allow enough fuel to pass through at WOT.

If I were to run 2 pumps I would not run them in series as you explained. They will probably produce more pressure that way but what you are needing is VOLUME and it will only increase slightly. If you have 2 lines feeding them (5/16 min.) and 2 lines from the pumps to the heads you will be doubling the volume capability as compared to stock. You could also have a 1/2" line from the tank to a filter and come out of the filter head with 2 5/16 lines. Same thing could be done on the pressure side with a final filter - 2 5/16 lines in and 1 1/2" line out to the engine.

I just got done with the fuel system on my OBS. Check out my pics by clicking the link in my sig. And also see my thread in the 7.3 forum - Finaly got some pics. I have part numbers for all the parts I used and these could all be used with a dual pump setup like I am talking about.

Here is an ITP regulated return kit

I would suggest getting something of that sort on there whether a kit or a DIY system. I think Beans has a kit as well.

Eric
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Quadzilla Commander, electric fuel system w/ regulated return
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 06:15 PM
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Due to the design of nearly every electric fuel pump made (and many mechanical pumps), if you increase the fuel pressure, you DECRESE the pump's FLOW CAPACITY. Fuel pumps are rated in GPH, LPH or lb/hr at a given pressure. There is a formula that gives the new flow at the new pressure.

If the pump will flow 255L/hr at 60 PSI, and you increase the pressure to 120 PSI it flows less. The amount less (or more if at lower pressure) goes as: new = rated (flow) times the square root of the pressure at rated (flow) the rated flow divided by actual pressure. Rated pressure is 60 psi ,flow is (assumed) 255l/hr.

Doing the math on it:
New flow => 60/(60+60) = 0.5 (ratio of old to new), we take the Sq Rt of this = 0.707 and multiply by the rated flow (255l/hr) to get 180.28l/hr.

So, we increased pressure, but DECREASED the peak flow capacity of the pump by nearly 30%.

To increase total fuel flow, especially with larger injectors (high power applications) you need a pump RATED for more flow, or more pumps.

If you do the math again, with to pressure pumps in series (one after the other) we find that the pressure is doubled, and the flow remains the same because the pressure drop (change actually) accross each pump is still at or below the rated pressure. 0->60 = 60 psi increase, 60-> 120 = 60 psi increase. What we did not accomplish is to increase the flow capacity of the pump(s), but we did increase the flow capacity of the supply system somewhat.

The REAL trick is to keep the stock pressure but increase flow capacity with the power levels. To give an example, let's say the stock power is 250 WHP, and we now make 500 WHP. We need to FLOW twice as much fuel. Most likely, the stock pump CAN keep up with demand, if the rest of the system can as well. If the stock fuel lines are 3/8" (0.375") ID, the cross-sectional area is pi*r^2 = 3.14 * (0.375/2)^2 = 3.14 * (3/16)^2 = 3.14 * 0.035" = 0.110 sq-in. To maintain flow at twice the power, the line now NEEDS to be 2 * 0.110 sq-in, or 0.220i sq-in.

What ID? 0.220/pi = r^2 = 0.0703. Remember is was r^2, so we need to find the sq-rt ( x-^2), and 0.0703-^2 = r = 0.264", d = 0.528" ~(17/32").

Most turbo-diesels have a BSFC of something close to 0.45. That's how many POUNDS of diesel it takes to make on HP (per hour). To figure out if the pump can support this, more math. 255l/hr =~ 67G/hr. Diesel weighs ~7.2lb/G, so 7.2 * 67 = 482.4 lbs/hr which if we divide bt 0.45 gies us HP/hr = 482.4/0.44 = ~1071 HP/hr.

Fuel supply size is one of the most often overlooked factors in making power.

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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 12-01-2006, 06:40 PM
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John, I like you and all... But can you speak english???

I get what your saying but the math is killin me!!! What size fuel line is it? :kissazz:

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