xlnt coolant write up-should be a sticky - Page 2 - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NYC F-350 View Post
To help prevent the coolant from flowing into the intake during your flushing process, you can just unplug the EGR valve. Unplug it when the truck is cold and off. It should be OK to do this for your flush, since your not likely to overboost it and force the valve open and since you will be relieving the pressure on the cooling system, the chances of hydrolock are minimal.
Unplugging the EGR valve will throw a code and illuminate the CEL.
What does the EGR valve have to do with flushing the coolant?

You are not risking getting ANY coolant into the intake or hydrolocking anything?

The procedure outlined in the document will not be completely (and may not be at all) effective at back flushing the oil cooler unless the majority of the water is forced thru the center of the cooler outlet where they show the hose inserted.

I would NEVER operate an engine with the thermostat removed unless severe overheating is the GOAL. Removing a thermostat allows coolant to circulate ONLY THRU THE WATERPUMP AND BYPASS and to completely avoind circulating thru the engine block and cylinder head(s) in almost all designs.

'93 F-250 HD, 7.3L IDI, 5spd - FARM TRUCK
I Support: Trailer brakes an every axle over the towing vehicle's GVW; CDLs for RVers; Safety inspections for ALL vehicles and 6 axle trucks (97K GVW proposal).

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 08:32 PM
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I responded to someone that has a failed EGR cooler and it is leaking coolant. To minimize the event of popping a head gasket while performing the flush, simply unplugging the EGR valve will prevent the valve from opening and introducing the coolant into the air intake stream, resulting in the head gaskets failure.
Also, since hydrolocking is through the exhaust side of things, If he is opening his cooling system as he should while performing the flush, he will have little chance of the coolant building up in the exhaust creating the hydrolocking condition.

There is an entire section of that document that outlines, in intimate detail, on how to reverse flush your oil cooler. Is it going to be effective on an old cooler that has become plugged over time? NO, and it was not written with that intent in mind. That fact is made quite clear in that document.
The reverse flushing was included in the document for those that, for one reason or another, failed to flush before installing their NEW oil cooler and their new oil cooler has become plugged due to the flushing activity after the fact.

The thermostat question was first raised between 'nylyon' and myself (I edited and contributed to the document in question) in the primary editing stage, where I thought it was best to leave the thermostat in place so that the chemicals introduced for the flushes would circulate through the engine rather than circulating through the degas bottle and radiator. He agreed with that and I believe it was written with that intent in mind. There were many (dealer techs and mechanics included) that contributed their "school of thought" when composing the document, and there were MANY that have performed flushing activities without the thermostat installed and not one had an overheating problem.

06 F-350 FX4 4X4 Extra cab Short box
updated stuff: turbo oil supply, fuel pressure spring
deleted stuff: stock oil cooler, egr cooler, next up is the kitty
added stuff: BPD oil cooler system w/cold weather package, Insight, FP, OP and boost gauges

Replace your own EGR cooler and OIL cooler. Files and notes

Comprehensive Flushing Technique

6.0 Owners should know......
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC F-350 View Post
I responded to someone that has a failed EGR cooler and it is leaking coolant. To minimize the event of popping a head gasket while performing the flush, simply unplugging the EGR valve will prevent the valve from opening and introducing the coolant into the air intake stream, resulting in the head gaskets failure.
Absolutely 100% false! IF you get coolant into the EGR area near the valve, unplugging the valve will not save you because the SECOND the valve opens after you plug it back in, BAM! Also, a head gasket failure is the LEAST of your concerns if you get water/coolant into an intake, you WILL bend the rods and more than likely break a piston.

Quote:
The thermostat question was first raised between 'nylyon' and myself (I edited and contributed to the document in question) in the primary editing stage, where I thought it was best to leave the thermostat in place so that the chemicals introduced for the flushes would circulate through the engine rather than circulating through the degas bottle and radiator. He agreed with that and I believe it was written with that intent in mind. There were many (dealer techs and mechanics included) that contributed their "school of thought" when composing the document, and there were MANY that have performed flushing activities without the thermostat installed and not one had an overheating problem.
If you remove the thermostat, because of the way the casting are, coolant will circulate thru the waterpump (housing) and radiator ONLY and really no where else. How are you going to know if the engine overheats when there is no circulation thru it and certainly none thru the oil cooler where the temp sensor is.

'93 F-250 HD, 7.3L IDI, 5spd - FARM TRUCK
I Support: Trailer brakes an every axle over the towing vehicle's GVW; CDLs for RVers; Safety inspections for ALL vehicles and 6 axle trucks (97K GVW proposal).

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote - Benjamin Franklin

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 02:38 PM
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Absolutely 100% false! IF you get coolant into the EGR area near the valve, unplugging the valve will not save you because the SECOND the valve opens after you plug it back in, BAM! Also, a head gasket failure is the LEAST of your concerns if you get water/coolant into an intake, you WILL bend the rods and more than likely break a piston.
Well, John, one would think that those that had a failed EGR cooler, and wanted to flush their cooling system in preparation for the repair, would be intelligent enough to NOT plug the EGR valve back in during the flush given the information provided. The flush, in this instance, is not just to accomplish a flush for the sake of accomplishing a flush. Their intent would be to remove as much of the contaminants present in the cooling system previous to installing the new oil cooler and egr delete (or replacement). Replace the oil cooler, delete or replace the EGR cooler as soon as the flush is complete. Period. Given the fact that the intake manifold comes off the vehicle for the repairs, I again assume that those that would tackle this repair themselves would have the intellect to drain and clean the intake as part of the repair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_G View Post
If you remove the thermostat, because of the way the casting are, coolant will circulate thru the waterpump (housing) and radiator ONLY and really no where else. How are you going to know if the engine overheats when there is no circulation thru it and certainly none thru the oil cooler where the temp sensor is.
I will be sure to pass that information along to all of the people that have contributed to the document.

06 F-350 FX4 4X4 Extra cab Short box
updated stuff: turbo oil supply, fuel pressure spring
deleted stuff: stock oil cooler, egr cooler, next up is the kitty
added stuff: BPD oil cooler system w/cold weather package, Insight, FP, OP and boost gauges

Replace your own EGR cooler and OIL cooler. Files and notes

Comprehensive Flushing Technique

6.0 Owners should know......
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 03:04 PM
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Why would you take the intake off? The EARLY 6.0ls you have to, but the '04 up ones you do not. Besides, you are counting on the EGR valve being closed, are you SURE that it is?

There is a lot of opportunity for FOD with the intake removed, I would advise anyone to leave it in place if at all possible, or at the very least make triple sure there is nothing that could fall into an intake port during removal and to ductape the ports the second the intake is off.

'93 F-250 HD, 7.3L IDI, 5spd - FARM TRUCK
I Support: Trailer brakes an every axle over the towing vehicle's GVW; CDLs for RVers; Safety inspections for ALL vehicles and 6 axle trucks (97K GVW proposal).

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote - Benjamin Franklin

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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 05:54 PM
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Some peoples kids...you can spell it out so they can follow, but that doesn't mean they will............
ANYONE that has peered inside an intake would WANT to take it off and clean it out. I think most would agree that removing all that crud and soot out of the intake would be a good idea, or am I the only one?Perhaps you have never dug into a 6.0..????

06 F-350 FX4 4X4 Extra cab Short box
updated stuff: turbo oil supply, fuel pressure spring
deleted stuff: stock oil cooler, egr cooler, next up is the kitty
added stuff: BPD oil cooler system w/cold weather package, Insight, FP, OP and boost gauges

Replace your own EGR cooler and OIL cooler. Files and notes

Comprehensive Flushing Technique

6.0 Owners should know......

Last edited by NYC F-350; 07-16-2011 at 06:04 PM.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC F-350 View Post
Some peoples kids...you can spell it out so they can follow, but that doesn't mean they will............
ANYONE that has peered inside an intake would WANT to take it off and clean it out. I think most would agree that removing all that crud and soot out of the intake would be a good idea, or am I the only one?Perhaps you have never dug into a 6.0..????
Buddy, you should look in the mirror there.....

No need to go insulting others, veiled or not, ok?

For the record, I have layed my hands on more different 6.0L engines, or the related VT365 than almost any other member and I have fixed ones others could not figure out even after weeks or trying and tons of parts.

Anyone who considers themselves a craftsman would not remove a part that is not necessary to do the job. If you are working on your own stuff, do as you like, someone else is not paying that bill.

'93 F-250 HD, 7.3L IDI, 5spd - FARM TRUCK
I Support: Trailer brakes an every axle over the towing vehicle's GVW; CDLs for RVers; Safety inspections for ALL vehicles and 6 axle trucks (97K GVW proposal).

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote - Benjamin Franklin

I vote for LIBERTY!
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2011, 07:45 PM
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The oil cooler replacement is part of the repair that I have been talking about from the very beginning. That does indeed require that the intake manifold be removed (per the service manual and every single Tech or other person I have talked to thus far).
I am not going into intimate, baby-step-by-baby-step, detail of how to do that repair to be picked apart by you or anyone else.
I have a thread on a different forum that outlines this repair. It has pdf files posted for the "how to" along with some notes and tips (including cleaning out the exhaust drive side of the turbo and the part number for that kit along with a few parts that would be easily upgraded at that time.
If you are in agreement with John_G and don't think you should clean your cooling system prior to replacing the oil cooler and EGR cooler (or deleting the EGR cooler) because your EGR cooler has failed...take the chance and see how long those two new components last. I wish you luck.

I have simply stated a way in which you can accomplish the flush and clean your cooling system with a failed EGR cooler, while minimizing the chances of causing further damage to your truck. I have not, nor would I, indicate that unplugging your EGR valve is a "temporary fix." Do NOT do it with that intention. If you were to drive your truck with a failed EGR cooler in place and have the EGR valve unplugged, the turbo may cause the valve to open and dump the coolant into the intake air stream. I never said that it wouldn't or that it couldn't. Using the 'high idle mod' and unplugging the EGR valve (and NOT running your truck down the road as part of the flush) can help you reach your goal of ensuring that your new oil cooler lives as long as possible.
I am done here, and have removed the e-mail subscription to this particular thread.

06 F-350 FX4 4X4 Extra cab Short box
updated stuff: turbo oil supply, fuel pressure spring
deleted stuff: stock oil cooler, egr cooler, next up is the kitty
added stuff: BPD oil cooler system w/cold weather package, Insight, FP, OP and boost gauges

Replace your own EGR cooler and OIL cooler. Files and notes

Comprehensive Flushing Technique

6.0 Owners should know......
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-22-2011, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Did some digging about Internationals version of the 6.0(VT365). They are running ELC cat-1 type coolants and here is some comments from a fleet maintenance forum that makes one think that no coolant is safe in a 6.0, and that regular flushing every 3yrs is probably the safest preventive thing you can do besides adding a coolant filter.
.................................................. .................................................. ....
[I have a 2006 CE VT365, 49,000 miles & about to install the 5th EGR cooler. My first question is, what is the actual damage to the cooler? Cracked tube? Pitted tube? Hole burned in tube? The warranty covered all new coolers & now the warranty has ended. Before I can have an opinion to what is causing the damage, I need to know what the exact damage is. I have read a lot of good suggestions for the premature failure.]


[On ours, the little part inside that looks like a radiator starts to leak. Make sure you have all your updates done on that bus. Has it had the ext filter installed. The number of failures on that bus is really bad. We have usually failed 3 or 4 by 150,000 miles. I would perform the test that IH uses to determine oil cooler restriction. Basically run the bus hard for at least 20 min and then (using the laptop) compare the engine oil temp to the coolant temp. If the oil temp is more than like 15 degrees above the coolant temp, you have a restricted oil cooler which is starving the EGR cooler for flow. The oil cooler is plumbed in series before the egr cooler (not the best idea). I am remembering the 15 degree number off the top of my head....it's been a while. Some buses plugged up the oil cooler with material that circulated out of the heater cores. IH replaced them as a part of one of their campaigns (probably expired now). You could have a restristion in this area.]
.................................................. .................................................. ....

Another note, is the Ford gold or hoat coolants were originally designed to work in european cars with high mineral content water. Euro water is much higher in minerals than North America. It is also compatible with green coolants should you need to add some in an emergency situation and that is all you can find. Not that I would use mineralized water in my coolant, but using hose water to flush out your cooling system is not likely to have any adverse effect.

Simple flush method that I used recently:

1) remove radiator drain petcock(19mm) and drivers side engine block drain(8mm allen)
2) let all coolant drain out(into container-s for safe disposal), put petcock and block drain plug back in finger tight
3) refill with hose water through degas bottle, start engine and turn on heater
4) let engine idle for a few min, turn off and drain radiator and block again(into container-s)
5) fill back up again with tap water and leave radiator and block drain plugs barely in place
6) start engine with hose still in degas bottle
7) remove drain plugs and turn hose on, and let what is mostly water now, flow out of radiator and block
8) let engine run like this for at least 10-15 minutes with heater on and the water flowing out of the radiator drain and block drain, the degas bottle will remain full and continue to flow fresh clean water through the cooling system.
9) the t-stat will never open, but really isn't necessary as the water pump is circulating all the water through the block and out the block drain, radiator is consistantly being filled and drained with fresh water also
10) turn off engine and hose and let all water drain out
11) put drain plugs back in finger tight and refill this time with distilled water and run engine again for a few minutes to circulate distilled water
12) drain water again and this time tigten drain plugs up
13) refill with 3.4 gal of your preferred 100% coolant and top off with more distilled water as necessary to the min-level fill line in your degas bottle. This should put you right at the -34F protection level of a 50/50 coolant-water mixture.

My truck is lifted, so this makes it easier for me, but this could also be acomplished on ramps or jack stands, and really can be done within a little over an hour. I used Zerex G-05 gold hoat coolant and this is my second flush in 84k total miles. No signs of any excessive deposits or any silicate drop out, in fact coolant looked real good still, despite being in there for about 50k this time around, first flush was at around 32k. I am not running a coolant filter either and have never used chemicals for flushing. My ect/eot deltas average 7-9 degrees or lower on a long steady drive. Examples: not towing, 6-people and camping gear in truck, ac on, ambient temps 75-80 degrees...ect 184...eot 189-191(t-stat will not open, using just block recirculation cooling, likely due to egr cooler block off) . Towing heavy(4-horses or hay) uphill grade steady at 2200-2500 rpm...t-stat open...ect 197...eot 201.
When I slow down or come to a stop idling, my ect/eot deltas always drop to within 2-3 degrees of each other within minutes and can drop to within 3-4 degrees while cruising steady on flat ground at 60mph.
I know ambient temps play a huge roll in these deltas, the hotter the weather, the higher these averages can be. But I live in a climate zone that rarely sees really warm weather for very long if at all lately.

Harry

Jan 03' built 6.0/F250cc4wd trqsft/SCT-tuned by KEM-Performance/Garrett Powermax vg-turbo/blue spring mod/gauges=egt+boost+fuel+SG2/exhaust/airaid intake/DR 4.5 lift/dual bilsteins/315's/greasable ball joints/powerstop/smittybuilt/kc lights/high idle mod/roll-n-lock/Mobil Delvac1 ESP 5W40 with (Archoil AR9100 in the oil) and (AR6200 in the fuel)
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 09:37 PM
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This is now a sticky.

The Current Truck (Oct-2013 to Present):
1999 (Early) F-350 Lariat, CCLB, SRW, Black/Tan

7.3L Powerstroke, 4R100, 4x4, 3.73, 37x13.50-18s, '05 Axle Swap, 6" Fabtech lift, GTP38 "D66" turbo upgrade, SCT 4-position chip with custom tuning by me, Straight Piped 4" down pipe through 5" dual stacks, N-Fab full length triple steps, Pro-Tech cab guard and tool box, louvered 5th wheel gate, Hella 500 Fog and Driving lamps, much more to come...
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