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common rail crossbread

14K views 19 replies 9 participants last post by  Mopar1973Man 
#1 ·
has any one ever put a common rail head on a 12 valve engine? going to probally try it.:evil: :nunu: :93C_peelo
 
#2 ·
IMO your money would be better spent just getting your 12v head ported. I have heard of putting 24v heads on 12v's, and putting CR heads on 12v's and when the heads are stock there isn't much gain. Just my .02.
Sean
 
#4 ·
excuse my ignorance, but why would the valves hit the pistons? Are the cams profiles that different?

Wouldn't a 12v cam work fine with the 24v head, pushrods, and rockers?
 
#6 ·
Dual K20s said:
excuse my ignorance, but why would the valves hit the pistons? Are the cams profiles that different?

Wouldn't a 12v cam work fine with the 24v head, pushrods, and rockers?
The cam is fine but I was told the rockers were of a different ratio? After looking through google I'm not too sure of the truth though?? LOL Open mouth/ insert foot LOL. I found a pic here that makes me think different. I know the piston bowls are alot different though. So probably would still run like snot. I tried to find a 12V piston that shows the offset bowl but had no luck. Anyhow here's the 24's and the one is a CR at TDC.
 

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#7 ·
Yeah I think the spray pattern work make for a very rough, inefficient, and hot ride.

Heres some 12valve pictures


 
#8 ·
Dual K20s said:
excuse my ignorance, but why would the valves hit the pistons? Are the cams profiles that different?

Wouldn't a 12v cam work fine with the 24v head, pushrods, and rockers?
The 24v cam profile is way different compared to a 12v and it wouldn't run right. The tapppets are shorter on a 24v as well. Without changing the cam and tappets to 24v it would never run right. Ask me how I know.... A 24v has different cam, tappets, pushrods and of course different rockers. I'm not so sure the valves will hit the pistons but you wouldn't know until you turned it over if you didn't check first. I agree I would just port the 12v head instead of having to buy CR injectors and valve train components.
 
#11 ·
what about some how making a set of injector bodys that would fit into the 12 valve head and build a fuel rail, and figure out how to make a custom adapter to turn a cp3 or maby 2 cp3 pumps, also adapt the sensors and ecu to run on it.... ive seen the import guys do a stand alon fuel managment computations. i guess if you could some how adapt or change the software to work with the tuning program, and custom tune it to your liking. they can do timing durration and control igntion and fuel ingection curves to suit the boost or nitros injection curves........i dont see why it couldnt work...just lots o $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
#12 ·
floridaboy said:
what about some how making a set of injector bodys that would fit into the 12 valve head and build a fuel rail, and figure out how to make a custom adapter to turn a cp3 or maby 2 cp3 pumps, also adapt the sensors and ecu to run on it.... ive seen the import guys do a stand alon fuel managment computations. i guess if you could some how adapt or change the software to work with the tuning program, and custom tune it to your liking. they can do timing durration and control igntion and fuel ingection curves to suit the boost or nitros injection curves........i dont see why it couldnt work...just lots o $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Problem with that, is that IMO offset injection isn't quite as efficient, plus I don't see any reason to CP3 a 12v. The fuel flow of the p-pump is not a limitation. Would you be doing something new and different? Hell Yes, but you're investing a lot of money for an insignificant gain. The common rail, or 24v head is capable of flowing a bit more air when fully ported compared to a fully ported 12v head, but either way, you need the head then several grand in port work. Also the common rail head is more prone to cracking. Just my opinion. Out of the box creative thinking is really what is required in any field to make developments. For every idea that makes an advancement, there are hundreds that don't get off the ground.
Sean
 
#13 ·
i was just thinking along the lines of big power and drivablity i love my p-pump but i love the big power and smothness of my dads CR, i would be cool to mate some sort of EFI to a 12 valve to keep the parts like turbos and injectors common with the p-pumped motor but have it so you can use a EFI programing logic and make your own tunes and injection sequence and stuff. i know JD has a pump that looks like a vp44 kinda but can adjust timing durration and pressure curves. its all in the logic program on the ecu. i just doesnt have the problems that the vp44 does. just thinking!!!!!
 
#14 ·
Someone want to explain why they P7100 is better than the common rail besides experience? :shrug: Cause I don't see any reason that the P-pump is any better than the CR besides sled pulling. 30,000psi, fully tunable duration and timing, capable of multiple squirts, the injectors are ready with full pressure just waiting at your command, I mean it seems like the CR has twice the potential of the P7100, but only half the experience. Give it a few years and I see no reason why it won't be the power king
:2cents
 
#15 ·
i was actualy thinking along the lines of economy tho. keep the upgrades cheap. make parts cheap if you know what your doing i guess. you can buy the fully stand alone computers for less than $400 thats with the software. and sensors. you just have to build it. you could make like a remote fuel rail with the firing sylinoids on the rail with hook up lines that bolt up to the 12 valve injectors.
 
#16 ·
I agree with Dual K20's.....I think once the CP3 CR motors are around as long as the P-pump they will be the king.....I like my 12V but I'd trade it for a CR without a second thought...the VP's on the other hand are ehhhh put it this way.....I'd take a rotary VE pump over a VP44.
 
#17 ·
i guess what im trying to invition is kinda a common rail retro fit. thats the best way to discribe it. make a kit of some sort that is realitivly inexpencive and market it to the guys with the 12 valves or 24 valves that wana go to the common rail for the efficency and or tuneability. maby even go beond the trucks and maby go to farm equipment or construction equiment. im not saying the p- pump is any better or worst than th CR... but the p-pump does not comply with tier-3 emmitions. the CR does.......
 
#18 ·
The key lies in the 2 letters that are always dropped. HPCR, high pressure common rail. That high pressure increases the effiency any you are never going to get a 12v nozzle to handle that kind of pressure. There is no way that this would be an in expensive kit to bring to market. You're just doing the same re-engineering that cummins has done and you'll probably arrive at a similar place. It would be much cheaper to drop an HPCR in an old truck and go from there.
Sean
 
#20 ·
Quite the conversation here...

I thibk every version of the cummins has its strong points and its weak points... Now the magic lies in creating a engine and transmission combo that has all the strong point but none of the faults!

Now you would have a mean machine! :woot:
 
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