Need some help concerning VT365 6.0L International - Diesel Truck Forum - TheDieselGarage.com
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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Need some help concerning VT365 6.0L International

I'm having some problems with my work truck and hope you guys can help.

2004 International 4200 VT365 6.0L 6 Speed Manual 24' Box Truck.

Thursday evening, February 24, I was delivering a load of parts from Oklahoma City to Amarillo. The engine light came on, and it started progressively losing power. I hit the next exit, pushed in the clutch and it died. I let the clutch back out and it fired back up. I pulled into a station parking lot and it seemed to idle fine. I did not try to drive it any further. I shut it off and tried to restart. It would crank over, but would not start back up. I quickly rented a Uhaul and got my delivery to Amarillo made (I got lucky as it was after midnight).
Returned back to the truck around 8am. Put the key in and she fired right up. I let it idle for about 15 minutes, and it seemed to be fine. I was apprehensive about driving it (and I still had the Uhaul to deal with), so I shut it off. It wouldn't restart.
Called an emergency diesel service to get it towed, diagnosed and repaired, as I need the truck to work. He got it to their shop and tried cranking it several times with no luck. He sprayed starter fluid into the breather and it fired right up. He did this two separate times. Both times it fired right up, but would not fire without the starter fluid.
After getting the engine up to operating temp, he shut it down and ran his diagnostic software. After several cranking tests, he found the HPOP was only pumping 265 psi. From what he said, it needs to have at least 500 psi to start.
After an hour of futzing around, he comes out with an estimate a little over $3,200. HPOP, ICP, IPR and related supplies. I give him the go ahead, parts will be there on Tuesday, they can reassemble and I can pick the truck up Wednesday. I do have parts to haul, so I leased a truck to get me by for the week. Since I am working and didn't really have the time to go get it anyway, I let it slide until Thursday, March 3rd. I called him to see how it was going and he tells me the parts had just arrived and they were working on it.
He would call by the end of the day to give me an update.........no call.

He calls me Friday, March 4 and tells me good news and bad news. He said he installed the parts and it fired right up. Got it to operating temps and when he went to test drive it, it died. He said he did some looking and a hose under the driver side valve cover had developed a leak. He ordered and replaced it, and it was running fine.

I picked the truck up Monday, March 7 and drove my parts route all week. It ran great until Friday on my way back from Tulsa. Not long after I got on the toll road, the engine light comes on and it starts doing the same thing over again (thinking back to Friday, I seem to remember it was taking a little longer cranking over before it would start. Not a huge amount, but definitely longer every time I went to start it). All week, I was thinking I should also replace the hose under the passenger side valve cover just to be safe. I called the International parts house in Oklahoma City and had my brother pick up the hose and bring it to me. Turned out to be the wrong hose, but I did get the correct one on Saturday. Still wouldn't start.

I had it towed to a shop here in OKC, and they will be looking at it tomorrow morning. With the almost $4,000, plus leasing a truck while this one was down, I really don't have a lot of $$$$ to drop into this at the moment.

So, what do you guys think could be the problem?

BTW, it doesn't throw any codes?????

Last edited by nitronick; 03-14-2011 at 07:37 AM.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 01:42 PM
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if the engine light is coming on then it should be logging a code, your problem sounds like a icp issue, sounds like the repair shop put a band-aid on it and the problem may have never been fixed. when the oil is cold its thicker and depending on the size of the leak the cold oil can start and run the engine fine till it gets hot and thins out, thats when you have problems, need to leak test the icp system to find the leak. just replaceing parts because its not building proper icp wont fix it. where ever you take the truck the need to find the leak, may need to get the engine hot to find it for sure. can remove the icp sensor and connect air pressure that way. common to have a injector leak or seals at the high pressure pump area. post back with a update when you can.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply dog.

It's odd that it doesn't put any codes, unless it won't show them on the odometer display. There are only two showing. One for the HVAC mode motor and one for something loosing connection with the ECM. Both have been there since before I bought the truck.

Just spoke with the shop. They are so packed with work it is going to be a couple of days before they can even get to it. I guess I am going to have to lease a truck again.....
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 04:23 PM
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Looks like the shop is on a fishing expedition and you are paying for their trip!

Low ICP can be from one or many things, it is OBVIOUS that they did not fully diagnose the problem on the first attempt but guessed. There are well documented ways to PROVE various components are good or bad, it does not seem like they proved anything was actually "bad" until they found the leak in the ICP connector hose.

The fact that you have the hose under the valve cover means this is an "early" engine, they were not known for being troublesome (STC fittings particularly). The fact that it starts COLD but not Warm or Hot is THE CLUE that there is an ICP leak or control fault. This potential leakage is EASILY detected by applying shop air to the system and verifying correct voltage to the IPR valve under load. But, special tools are needed to do these test well and quickly, tools I bet they do not have or know about.

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks John.

I'm sure the first shop was on a fishing expedition. They are a big truck shop, and from the end result, are just parts throwers.....at others expense. In the end, I think it would have been cheaper to have it towed the 130 miles back to Oklahoma City and repaired here....

The shop it is at now came very highly recommended from several friends that all use them for their medium duty trucks. I'm just hoping the problem is just seals or some other inexpensive problem and not injectors.

I am a gas engine guy, so am kind of limited in the diagnosis of diesels. I have no problem getting my hands dirty to make repairs, but I don't have access to the size of shop needed to undertake something like this. I also do not have the specialty tools you mentioned.

It is odd that it did not log any codes.

Something else strange about the engine. According to the VIN, the engine is a 2003/early 2004. Trying to get the hose from International for the passenger side, nothing matched up. It was close, but the 90 degree bend at the end was turned the wrong way. None of the diagrams matched the layout of my engine. I finally took a try at calling Ford about a 6.0L Powerstroke, and everything matched perfectly. I don't know what to think about that.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 06:33 PM
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sounds like a hpop dieing to me. they are a known problem on the early motors.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitronick View Post
After an hour of futzing around, he comes out with an estimate a little over $3,200. HPOP, ICP, IPR and related supplies. I give him the go ahead, parts will be there on Tuesday, they can reassemble and I can pick the truck up Wednesday.
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Originally Posted by diablos30 View Post
sounds like a hpop dieing to me. they are a known problem on the early motors.
Already replace the HPOP, ICP, and IPR.... There is a leak somewhere in the system.

Hope you get it figured out soon, I know how it is being without your truck when it is your money maker.

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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New shop just called. Needs new injectors. $3200.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 08:20 PM
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oopps, thought they were in the process of replacing it.

could also be compression gases getting into the fuel.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-14-2011, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nitronick View Post
New shop just called. Needs new injectors. $3200.
what makes them think that all 8 injectors went out at the same time? if they're getting codes for all 8 injectors that would typically point to a bad ficm.
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