Anybody running this combo having issues with rough idle? Got one driving me crazy. Tried stamped trims, 5232's, 6999's and anything across the board. Hood shakes when idling, and hear missing in exhaust. Clears up above 1000 rpm's...
Fresh inframe, and 10R-8502's....narrowed it down to #1 and 2....replaced with more 10R's....seemed better for a few miles, then back to shaky idle...
Any ideas before going back to stock stick and inj's????
That's about the bulk of it, the idle quality isnt there with the truck engine programming, or maybe that's not even it, how often is a marine engine at idle, more so would you even feel it in a boat?
I ran a factory 550/1850 (305-2778) file after the inframe, and it still did it. Now running the tuned 600 file. This morning I did a cut out test, and #1 made no difference while idling, but did change at any rpm above idle. All the others made a diff at idle. I guess quality Cat injectors.....
i dont have this combo!!!but you have a hw engine the trim codes are industrial, with a cam marine, the last 2 , have the very long timing, then I think that have to do is retard the time of ignition of the cramshaft(1 to 8)electronic remember the cranshafth is a smart sensor yo can move :shrugs so that match all,
The 800 cams are known for a more rough idle. You can swap #1 and #2 injector see the if the cutout will follow the injector. Does it smoke at all idling?
Here's mine idling with 59's, 800 cam and pittsburgh power.
When the cam was put in, I also swapped out the pacs that were in there for a set of 340A jakes and had them rebuilt. If I could use my jake everywhere i'd never need to touch my brakes but i'm never driving the truck loaded either.
I tried sleeping in the bunk with the truck running for the first this week and yes,it does have more vibration that I guess is the cam. The bigger question,Sled,is "HOW DOES IT RUN???" The 600 file,cam,and injectors should be a sweet combo. Is it? How about smoke? A buddy is building a motor with that combo except 55 injectors. We're hoping it's not too smokey.
Doug, honestly it was a horse....WAS....until I installed 3 more injectors. It seemed to lose its strength. But, I'm afraid my factory ATAAC is not big enough for the power, as I am having high intake temps while pulling hard with high boost. EGT is fine thanks to the new nozzle band housing. (Which, by the way, you need to try.)
Not sure whats going on. I'm minutes away from going back to stock cam and 57's.....
Hey sled, Sorry to hear about the problems your having. It's got me having bad flashbacks. Well you know how I feel about that cam.
But enough about that , how are you liking that nozzle vane housing?? What ring are you running?? Is it living up to all my hype !!oke
Darren, whoever designed the nozzle housing did their homework. Like yourself, I have tried every turbo on the planet. What flowed good on top, was slow to spool...what spooled fast on the bottom, gave up on the top side. This housing has cured EVERY problem I had. I am running the 10 vane ring. The 13 is still in the box wrapped in plastic. I have not felt the need to try the 13 as the 10 is perfect in every way. High EGT is no longer an issue...I really have to lug the sh*t out of it to get to 1000...even with the 600 file.
Im going to stay with a factory 550/1850 file with the 800 cam and 58 injectors. After hours of changing injectors, I found 6 of the 9 I bought to finally idle and run smooth. If I run the 600 file, I will get high intake air temps while pulling hard on a long grade. I suppose my ATAAC is not up to the job. No leaks, just not very efficient I suppose.
The 58s are the injectors, it's part of the part number, they seem to be one of the highest flowing injectors that was use in a truck engine from the factory.
The 800 cam is the camshaft that is used in the 800hp marine engines, and a decent upgrade for a truck.
The 959s are actually the injectors used with the 800hp cam. I think Mr Haney was running these up until he got a modded set, they wi support some horsepower with the proper ancillary hardware to go with them.
Cody, Eric, Mr. Haney and anyone else will know more and please help me here.
No first hand experience. i understand that 59's will make big power but be very smokey?...:happymugs
In a 6NZ 550 the 59 injectors are worth 200+ Hp to the ground. They will not pass a opacity snap throttle test. They flow roughly 50% more fuel than a 57 and need other engine modifications to work in a truck properly.
They do respond well to mods, but they do have a weak spot in the block, cat left the bore for a camshaft in the block, and I believe that without the cam in the block it allows too much flex and they will start to crack when pushed over 800. Thats all I can figure, yet for some reason they can push a B/C block over 2000hp without breakage so I really don't know.
The old cam spot has nothing to do with the block strength. They fixed the issue with the block when they went to the 1LW blocks which still have the old cam area. I don't remember exactly but I think it was something about the strength in the main journals. When they went from the 2WS (last of the 3406E) to the 6NZ (same electronics as 2WS) they then took out the cam area and changed the gaskets for better sealing. Really thats the only difference from the 2WS and 6NZ but they called the 6NZ a C15
Thanks for the clarification, I always heard something about cracking around an oil passage, that's why I thought it had something to do with the cam. Didn't some of the 5ek engines have girdles/block stiffeners from the factory.
Mine has a plate that bolts to the bottom of the block. It isn't half as good as a regular plate for a B/C. Not as thick, and uses only IIRC 8 bolts to hold it in place.
So with my stock 5EK 550HP.... if I have my ECM flashed with a 2WS 600HP file, put hot injector codes in, I would be around 650-680 FWHP... would I need any other hard part upgrades?. will she smoke much on the snap test? and I assume i would be driving by the gauges when in any good pull?
any last question howmany versions of the E motors was there? 5EK, 2ws...etc...
Thanks again guys this is just like building hot rods!.
You need to flash it with a 5DS 600 file. You can't put a 70 pin file in a 40 pin ecm. You don't need to upgrade any other parts when doing the flash but most likely your stock turbo wouldn't last all too long depending on how you drove ti and its current condition.
40 pins 5EK, 6TS, 1LW and 5DS. 70 pins 2WS, 1MM, 6NZ, 7CZ and MBN.
Software is not interchangeable between the 40 and 70 pin ecms. the 5DS is the 15.8L 40 pin and the 1MM is the 15.8L version of the last 3406E with the 70pin ecm. The 7CZ is 15.8L but the same block as the C15 but they called it a C16
6 E models if you count the 15.8L engines, and the programming would be for a 5DS I believe, this is the earliest 600 and would prolly be the one to work with the 40 pin ECM.
You would prolly need to upgrade to the stage 1 turbo, mr haney can set you up with one of them.
The 5EK and 6TS blocks are weak on the right side, along the main oil supply galley that runs the length of the block. The 1LW and 5DS block is a heavier casting in this area.
You can install the girdle support plate from the B-Model engine to the bottom of any 3406 based engine, including a C-15/C-16/C-18 as long as you change the oil pan to accommodate the old style paper gaskets. In fact most Industrial engines use this plate to stiffen the block structure. This plate sandwiches between the oil pan and block, it's also 1/2" thick and utilizes all the oil pan bolts to hold it in place.
Found a couple of notes i have saved from previous conversations. Hopefully Mr. Haney will add to this. :happymugs
cat 10R0957 (stock C15 truck) injector tips flow 2.7kg/min,
58s flow 3.107kg/min,
10R0959 (stock C18 marine) injector tips flow 4.7kg/min, thats almost double the flow for a marine engine
1000HP C18 marine injector part # 211-3028 converts to 10R7228, they are injectors from a C18 marine/high hp industrial. They flow 5.5kg/min.
Well, three days ago I spent one afternoon trying different injectors. Out of the nine 58's, I found 6 that idles smooth. But today, it started shaking while idling again. It has a slight fuel knock, that will go away when I cancel #5. But only while running the 600 file. Not really sure what's going on with this thing....
This cam idled smooth with the 57's, but not new 58's.....
that sucks. nothing like putting new parts in and it still runs like crap... I guess the electronic is both good and bad.
Just wondering has anyone been able to hack the Cat ECM to re-program how it controls the engine? just wondering if these cats are like the GM ecu that the hot rodders tinker with?
Its still doing good today....still a slight shake in the idle, but not enough to worry about. Now, if I can get the 600 file to work correctly, I'll be set.
Eric, you are going to drive yourself crazy. The only way to get injectors perfectly smooth is buy new ones(not Reman) and send them to OZ to be re-calibrated properly by ---_---. 6 brand new injectors(not Reman) from CAT can be as much as 12% out of calibration right out of the box with the injector calibration codes programmed into the ECM. The Wizard keeps telling me I need to build a bench here in the USA and set up a shop doing the injector calibrations. I just need roughly $250K to get started with all of the proper tools, equipment and reserve cash until the business can pays it's own bills. Anybody know of a cheap loan shark/loan officer willing to gamble?
Drive myself crazy is already come and gone. I understand what you are saying, Im just frustrated why a set of very high mile 57's run smooth, and Reman 57's and 58's idle like chit.....Thanks again for your help, Kurt.
As far as the $250K goes....cant help you there, as I am in the trucking business.....:roflol:
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