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Lets talk coolant problem fixes/preventions

13K views 68 replies 11 participants last post by  trapit 
#1 ·
So, my truck has 9600 miles. Not tuned yet, but I'm of course going to..

Has anyone figured out the coolant problems? There has got to be a Ford tech on these pages that has delt with these problems.

Also, how do I know if my truck needs the radiator replaced, and that T deal done. I'm not really up to speed on this problem.

Also, blocking egr with the plates will remove all exhuast from the EGR cooler. Are people working on a whole EGR cooler delete?
 
#2 ·
whole EGR delete is available through elite...and yes a blockewr plate will keep exhaust gasses out... 99% sure it's EGR Cooler related
 
#3 ·
So how will this not cure all problems. and what makes the delete even needed?
 
#4 ·
I do have elites egr delete done on my truck. I have had no problems with it puking. I did have to have the radiator replaced, but it was a faulty radiator. Apparently the crimping on some of them was sub-par. But, no puking issues to date with egr delete.
 
#5 ·
How can I tell if I got one of the bad radiators...
 
#6 ·
Ian. You bought the truck off of your Dad right? He should have a record of the repairs or the tsb/recalls. If not. Make an appointment and it shoud be replaced by Ford if your VIN falls in the recall range.
 
#7 ·
Is there a web page to check VIN's?
 
#8 ·
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#9 ·
ForceFed... Anything to say about the block of plates. Doing the plates should be enough? Or is there actual risk of the coolant cracking the cooler and flow into it should be avoided?
 
#10 ·
Hard to say. I havent heard good or bad about them. Most people that have been going that route have been going with the full delete when they are getting thier other mods done. As for the plates. I know I will give it some serious consideration when mine is in next week for the puking. If they end up pulling the heads because the EGR is OK I might pass. But if the coolers are blown I'll try to sweet talk them into slipping them in. If the work wasnt getting done at the dealership and there was a good diesel shop in town I would go with the full delete.

I guess it all comes down to how much money you want to throw at it, and what your willing to sacrifice for the fix. I know that when oil comes up and the rigs are rolling. I will be pulling the cab and doing it right. I just cant afford it right now.
 
#11 ·
The blocking plates seal off the exhaust gases. Not the coolant. But to install the important plate. The one on the back of the engine. the cab has to be removed.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Just throwing my 2 cents out there. It's long but there are pictures! :thumbsup

Ford refers to the line coming from the egr valve, going to the degas bottle, as the "de-aeration/coolant feed". It has a one-way flow, to the degas bottle. If I remember correctly, a few of you guys have actually witnessed this line bubbling in the degas bottle.

The venturi-T is designed so that the line coming from the radiator to the degas bottle isn't back-fed this excess gas (coming from the egr valve's line), overpressurizing / inflating the radiator. So its pretty clear the pressure in the degas bottle is coming from this "deaeration" line.

If you trace that back, through the egr valve, it then goes directly to the coolant outlet on the egr coolers. If the egr coolers are basically "blowing bubbles", all of that exhaust gas will be filtered to the degas bottle through this line. It is designed this way to prevent tons of bubbles from going back into the pump.

In my opinion, this is where the overflow is coming from. As for "WHY", it probably has two different causes.

One may be that the EGR-delete tunes only close the EXIT of the egr system, allowing the coolers to remain pressurized, especially under high-boost conditions. They may not be able to handle the boost levels that the tuned trucks are seeing, especially with no relief as the "exit" (egr valve) is blocked / closed. This will inflate them beyond their critical failure pressure, and cause internal fracturing of solder points.

Second reason is because of the radiator leaks. If it is not caught early enough, the coolant level drops low enough to starve the egr coolers of coolant, overheating them, and causing major internal damage and leaking.

The difference between the two causes may be in the symptoms.

In situation-one, trucks will probably just overflow at the degas because the pressure is leaking into the coolant in one direction. A failure in the cooler that only opens / expands when the cooler is pressurized, since that is how the fracture occurred. A one-way flow of exhaust gas into the coolant.

In the overheat situation, the cooler may be completely melted or deformed inside, causing coolant to leak in EITHER direction, allowing coolant to make it into the exhaust stream, headed for the intake, and possibly exhaust gas into the coolant stream, headed for the degas bottle. This may be why some people (after an overheat) report white exhaust smoke / burning coolant.

If this proves to be correct, I'll be looking forward to a solution that involves a small delete plate at the entrance to the coolers, the closing of the EGR valve, and the bypassing of coolant flow through the coolers by connecting the inlet line going to cooler 1 with the outlet line coming from cooler 2.

It would probably still be a good idea to keep the deaeration line, to prevent the system from recirculating any bubbles that may naturally occur. That would be as simple as extending the coolant hose going to cooler 1 up to the top, to connect to the outlet coolant hose on cooler 2... and keeping it tied in with the deaeration line at the systems high-point (for trapped air to make its way out).

Here are the two images to make sense of this long-***** post! One image is the coolant flow, and the other, the exhaust gas flow, shown in yellow arrows, with EGR flow shown with white arrows.

Sorry for the length.... Did I lose anyone!? :D



 
#13 · (Edited)
Just throwing my 2 cents out there. It's long but there are pictures! :thumbsup

<snip>
This is an excellent post, ZeroOne. Thanks for taking the time
to post this.

Edit: Thought I would add that my truck has not encountered
the problem. But, the analysis offered here is appreciated
nonetheless.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the input, I have read read this before and some of it makes sense. But the part that blows apart the theory is that only 2-3% of the trucks are doing this. Thats jsut a guess but I think Matt has sold over 400++ 275 tunes, and there is what 6-10 of us having this problem??? Also this is happening on stock trucks.

There seems to be no common problem, we thought at first it was just job 1's, then a job two and three appeared, then we thought it was a rad problem but then guys that didn't have a rad problem started having probs.

My thoughts change daily, but I lean toward the head gasket, but that doesn't make any sense because mine has been doing this for 15,000 km +/- and really hasn't got any worse.

I read about a ambulance having the same symptoms and it ended up being a HG and there is a guy on the Spartan forum and he hasn't confirmed all the same problems yet but he also has a HG gone...

I am thinking/hoping that when these motors get stripped down at Elite they will be able to tell us something more positve. And I belive Forcefed is going in next week so we can keep our fingers crossed!!
 
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#17 · (Edited)
... only 2-3% of the trucks are doing this. Thats jsut a guess but I think Matt has sold over 400++ 275 tunes, and there is what 6-10 of us having this problem??? Also this is happening on stock trucks.

There seems to be no common problem, we thought at first it was just job 1's, then a job two and three appeared, then we thought it was a rad problem but then guys that didn't have a rad problem started having probs...

I understand that the problem seems sporadic. Part of that may have to do with the types of failures occurring. Whether they are the result of low coolant because of an unchecked leak, or an over pressurization, everything seems to be getting lumped into one "coolant" category that will make it difficult to diagnose.

Some people may actually have head gasket issues because of the low coolant situation, as described by one of the guys from Spartan, regarding engine overheating, coolant passages, and head warping.

My post wasn't meant to be a one-size-fits-all EGR delete recommendation, but for the trucks that were never low on coolant and only "puke" on heavy boost / high load, my suggestion may be the cause.

I'm with you on waiting to hear what the guys at Elite find. I just hope that we can start to clarify the symptoms a little more and keep the trucks history in mind in order to find the specific cause. All of these situations involve "coolant", but there may be different factors at work.

It is possible that the 6-10 people having the degas problem may have had weaker egr coolers (or have found them to be a weak point). Also possible is that the stock trucks simply melted their egr coolers when the coolant level dropped as the radiator failed and/or ruined the head gaskets at the same time. Some people with tuned trucks may have had BOTH situations, adding to the confusion.
 
#15 ·
Awsome post ZeroOne.

Klutch is also having his truck gutted right now. Just havent heard back from him yet.... Kole?
 
#18 ·
I am hoping for EGR and HG failure so everything can be changed, blocked, and upgraded.
 
#19 ·
Also, not many of the people that Spartan has sold the tunes to show up on this website. Shoot, I bet only a portion of people that have Spartan tunes are on TDG. Poor souls don't know what they're missing.
 
#21 ·
I agree, blocking the exhuast gases at the "Y" would really be helpful. But that HAS to be a cab off deal right? I know in 6.0 couldn't you sneak round in a fender well or somehting?



Also, Great discussion guys. You are bringing me up to speed on the 6.4 quickly!
 
#22 ·
Talked to Matt and he said it could be done without the cab removal...also if we block off the EGR at the Y, do we need to also do a coolant bypass or are we good?
 
#25 ·
Can you explain more. How can we get all the way to the back of the motor at that without the cab off. I think ALOT of people would be interested. Also, if the coolant lines from cooler one could be attached to the lines of 2 wouldn't this totally delete the system.

Zerone... Is there anything between the coolant line of the first EGR to the second coolant line that would be harmful without coolant to it? As long as all the coolers are blocked from exhuast flow?
 
#23 ·
If it is blocked off at the Y then everything should be good with the EGR off tunes. Closed at both ends. :thumbsup
 
#30 ·
Zero,

As I think about it, the ones with White smoke or burning coolant would have issues because it is going into the exhaust stream...My problem seems to be at Higher EGT's...So just a block at the Y should be good for me at least???
 
#32 ·
Trapit,

Still interested in if you can get back to the Y with the cab on...
 
#31 ·
Zerone

Yeah I understand what you are saying here. One question.. wouldn't it much better for exhuast flow to block the Y and bypass the coolant than it would be to block it at the flex pipe? It seems the exhuast flow would be much better...I work with like 170 welders so we could make it work lol...I dunno how to get back there but could def. look into it.
 
#37 ·
I doubt it will have much effect on flow, blocking in either location. Both should have the same result. When we refer to blocking it off at the "Y", it is still a little ways up the tube and around a 90 degree bend. I don't think it makes much difference since the "branch" in the tubing is left unchanged, as far as any turbulence goes in the pipe heading for the turbo.
 
#34 ·
You might be able to get to it if your hands and arms had no bones. It is TIGHT back there.
 
#38 ·
Where you block doesnt seem to be as important as not blocking it at all. Weather its at the Y or the XO flange.
 
#40 ·
cross over. There is a corss over flange on the horizontal cooler where it mates up with the flex pipe. Thats where I would blank it off.
 
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