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Junior Member
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Discussion Starter #1
My dumb truck did it again.... Cranks but wont start.

It has been sitting for a few days. Driving fine when I parked it. Today.... No Start.

HPOP pressure 1500psi while cranking. (Mechanical gauge and ICP sensor)
Base Oil pressure Normal after 20 second crank.
No Codes
Fuel Pressure Normal
RPM reading goes to 80 or so when cranking (AE Scan Tool)
Dash Tach read zero while cranking.
FICM volts 47.5v (AE Scan Tool)
Injector Buzz Test - All 8 Clicked OK.
5 volt reference good. (AE scan tool and Digital volt meter at ICP)
Cam position and Crank position not in sync (AE Scan Tool)
Cam Position Sensor Failure = 0 (AE Scan Tool)

Which sensor drives the RPM readings? I think the Cam sensor.

So I think this describes the current conditions pretty good.

If CMP Failure is OK and the two are out of sync, then CKP is suspect. Right?


Now, How do I get to the CKP sensor? Its buried on the right side, towards the front, below the exhaust manifold. I see it in the Bible pictures but I cant see it on the engine. Is there another way to test the sensor with Ohm meter on pins at the computer?


PS: Anybody want to buy a truck????? Arrrrrguh!!!
 

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Senior Member
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"Dash Tach read zero while cranking."

No sync between CMP + CKP could cause your crank no fire condition, but I'm not 100% sure thats the problem at this point.

Are you getting any fault codes 2614 or 2617 ?

Either of those sensors are very rare to fail.

Maybe try wiggling some harness wiring near or leading to the CKP sensor.

Also try a hard reset by disconnecting the battery grounds for a few minutes then rehook up and try starting.

Another rare but possible issue is the cam timing pin,
http://www.backglass.org/duncan/ps60_manual/ps60_053.jpg
http://www.backglass.org/duncan/ps60_manual/ps60_052.jpg

Keep us posted, I'll let you know if I come up with anything else.

Harry
 

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Junior Member
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721 Posts
Yes you can ohm them out at the PCM you just need to know the PIN numbers. Unfortunately my regular computer took a dump and my iPad does not allow me onto the ford website to help you at this time. If you pull either sensor and pass a metal tool (back and forth) in front and set a dvom on a low a/c scale you should get a reading if the sensor is good.
 

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203 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I disconnected both batts to reset the computer. Then tried to start. It started!

Now I have P0603 - KAM error (Keep Alive Memory). Is this a left over from the batts disconnected?

I inspected some wiring and found a fraid wire at the ICP connector. I will replace the pigtail.

Attached is a screen shot of my AE Tool.

The only thing I noticed is the "CMP CKP Are in Sync" signal keeps toggling. Is this normal? I have never noticed it before.


I cleared the CIL and P0603 is gone.

So now its off to the International Shop for a pigtail.


Side Note: I got an Email from A Chevy Forum this morning wishing me a Happy Birthday. Is this an omen or what? Wrenching on my Ford is no way to spend a birthday.
 

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Curmudgeon
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"The only thing I noticed is the "CMP CKP Are in Sync" signal keeps toggling. Is this normal? I have never noticed it before."

A few months ago I saw that on AE and freaked out too. Programmed ScanGage to watch it and it was fine. Checked it with IDS and it was fine, so I think it's an AE glitch.

No batts, KAM loses it since no power to retain.
 
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Junior Member
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I've been trying to sort out why my truck starts almost instantly one time and others up to a 3 sec crank. AE shows no FICM sync until the truck fires and cam sync stays at 0. All pressures and volts are normal and the truck runs great, so I'm not too worried, just trying head off a future problem. I'm going to swap the cam sensor just for grins, the crank sensor is buried behind the A/C compressor and is a pain to get to.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Update: Put on the new ICP pigtail. All seems OK. Loaded up truck and trailer for a weekend with the Grand Kids, headed out and a few miles down the road the AC quit again. Decided to turn around and call it quits. Just too many breakdowns to risk getting stuck in the mountains.

The front half of the AC clutch has fallen off twice. The last time I used a healthy dose of lock tight on the bolt threads. This time the AC comes and goes. Totally random. Not like a low pressure cutout. More troubleshooting is required. Maybe engine harness related. I have never had any refer line open.

I'm thinking about removing the entire engine harness and closely inspecting and/or repairing anything that looks bad. A new harness from International is about $1300. (Ford probably twice that. I didn't even call) The one ICP pigtail was $17. I can use pigtails and build my own harness for way less.

I also noticed my fuel pressure is pulsing again. I've had issues with injector tips before but I have never had all of them out. Should I pull all of them? Is there a good place that rebuilds injectors? Maybe its just time for an injector overhaul. 225K miles and 12 years. What seems to be the normal lifespan of injectors? I probably should have pulled them when I had the coolant leak under the intake.

I have always said that I was going to drive this truck until the wheels fall off. Is an AC clutch the same thing as a wheel? (Its round like a wheel)

I like my truck and I know its faults and history. I don't want to start learning a new truck. But maybe its just time for a new one.

Stay tuned for the rest of the story......
 

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The engine harness less the glow plug harness is $554 from Tousley/Autonation White Bear. Pt number 3C3Z-12B637-AB I replaced mine this past winter when I had it apart for new injectors. I thought about repairing it but by the time I got it out I realized the best option was replacing it. I had 175k on my injectors and the shops I talked to said they were due, one was giving a contribution code. Two were leaking past the copper gaskets. Engine runs noticeably smoother and I picked up some mpg
 

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Curmudgeon
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472 Posts
..... I also noticed my fuel pressure is pulsing again. ......
Mine has been doing that too, but can't find an injector fault. Mine is 52-57 at idle hot.
 

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Update: Put on the new ICP pigtail. All seems OK. Loaded up truck and trailer for a weekend with the Grand Kids, headed out and a few miles down the road the AC quit again. Decided to turn around and call it quits. Just too many breakdowns to risk getting stuck in the mountains.

The front half of the AC clutch has fallen off twice. The last time I used a healthy dose of lock tight on the bolt threads. This time the AC comes and goes. Totally random. Not like a low pressure cutout. More troubleshooting is required. Maybe engine harness related. I have never had any refer line open.

I'm thinking about removing the entire engine harness and closely inspecting and/or repairing anything that looks bad. A new harness from International is about $1300. (Ford probably twice that. I didn't even call) The one ICP pigtail was $17. I can use pigtails and build my own harness for way less.

I also noticed my fuel pressure is pulsing again. I've had issues with injector tips before but I have never had all of them out. Should I pull all of them? Is there a good place that rebuilds injectors? Maybe its just time for an injector overhaul. 225K miles and 12 years. What seems to be the normal lifespan of injectors? I probably should have pulled them when I had the coolant leak under the intake.

I have always said that I was going to drive this truck until the wheels fall off. Is an AC clutch the same thing as a wheel? (Its round like a wheel)

I like my truck and I know its faults and history. I don't want to start learning a new truck. But maybe its just time for a new one.

Stay tuned for the rest of the story......
Unfortunately the wheels falling off is not one of the reported failures. Sorry to hear you had to bail on taking the family out that's the worst part. I don't think I'll get my wife in my truck for a long trip again after the rough trip to Florida.

I'm convinced when hot weather returns the weaknesses rear their ugly head on our engines. Especially the early trucks with the ICP so close to the turbo.
 

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Stuck in Commiefornia...
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1,296 Posts
If you've had multiple problems with AC clutches, it may be the shaft on the compressor, and it might be time to swap that out. 224k is a lot of miles and it's not impossible to need some peripheral parts on the accessory drive in that time.

I gave up on mine in 2012. Loved the truck, but it was getting to be gut wrenching to deal with the problems. Starting over with another older truck might have been ok for me, but that's not the answer for everyone. And neither is throwing money at these things continuously. I feel for you guys having problems, really.

Ford and Navistar dropped a lot of sub-par hardware on the world in a short 4 years time. That's the thing that makes it even harder to stomach, with '03 and '07 being half year runs, they still managed to sell the day lights out of the 6.0L when it was on the market.

Just don't go backwards to a 7.3 unless you have no other option, they are slow, heavy, and aging. The newest of them is almost 13 years old. They aren't without their faults and they do not make the same kind of power a 6.0L does, they get the job done, just not quickly. And the 6.4 is it's own bag of trouble, to stay in a Ford means going backwards or leaping forward into a 6.7L truck. Or changing brands.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yesterday in the morning I tried to start the truck. Cranks but no start. Came back later in the afternoon and it started. This intermittent is drive me nuts.

I started to dig into the engine harness and I find a substantial amount of moisture inside one of the three connectors at the PCM. Now I'm convinced to remove the entire harness for inspection.

I really have two problems. Low and pulsing fuel pressure and this intermittent no start. In addition to the engine harness I'm going to pull all the injectors for inspections.

I pulled the fuel pressure regulator apart and the blue spring is not blue any more. No visible debris or abnormal wear. I'm going to replace everything anyway.

So here starts another weekend of wrenching on my truck.
 

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Senior Member
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Toggling could be the impulse readings as the engine rotates, not sure. So many variables on our programming, especially if custom tuning is involved.

Harry
 

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Junior Member
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Yesterday in the morning I tried to start the truck. Cranks but no start. Came back later in the afternoon and it started. This intermittent is drive me nuts.

I started to dig into the engine harness and I find a substantial amount of moisture inside one of the three connectors at the PCM. Now I'm convinced to remove the entire harness for inspection.

I really have two problems. Low and pulsing fuel pressure and this intermittent no start. In addition to the engine harness I'm going to pull all the injectors for inspections.

I pulled the fuel pressure regulator apart and the blue spring is not blue any more. No visible debris or abnormal wear. I'm going to replace everything anyway.

So here starts another weekend of wrenching on my truck.
I'm curious how moisture got in there. Hope the "whack a mole" is getting nailed down.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well its been a few weeks since I last worked on the truck. So far it has always started.

I pulled the engine harness out for inspection and possible repair. I decided to scrap it and put in a new one. I don't know where the moisture on the one PCM connector came from. I know better than to spray water anywhere near electrical connectors. I don't think rain water can get to it either. But you never know. I'll keep an eye on it. (we haven't had rain in Sacramento in a long time)

The Cam and Crank sensor connectors were covered with oil. The inside of the connectors were still clean. Some of the other connectors on top were also oily. This lead to the decision to replace the entire harness

I pulled the left side injectors and saw nothing abnormal. Cleaned them up with a rag, blew out the bores and reinstalled with new washers and O-rings. I did not pull the right side injectors this time.

I also replaced all the guts of the fuel regulator. I still have the same low pressure. I'm suspecting the gauge. This is one Mole that still needs to be whacked! (Thanks Indiana, that was a perfect description)

Regarding the in/out of sync showing on the AE Tool: If the cam and crank really were out of sync, the engine would quit or I suspect at the least cough and sputter.

Thanks guys for all the support and a place to share frustrations and successes.

(Whack Whack Whack)
 

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Curmudgeon
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Since my post a while ago I've found the sync issue to be an AE issue, but sync is fine with Scangage or IDS and the truck runs fine.

You mentioned earlier about your fuel pressure pulsing and you pulled the injectors on the one side but found nothing with the injectors and replaced the o-rings and washers. Despite the low fuel pressure, is the fuel pressure still pulsing as one of the other injectors may be the cause.
 

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Senior Member
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It's not too difficult to test if you have an injector leaking into the fuel system. I put my 6.4 banjos I also did a test and put small balloons on the fuel lines and cranked to see if any air was leaking into the fuel system. It wasn't my gauge was bad and was failing.
 
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