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worked on a 2005 lly checked water pump,both stats are new,radiator flushed,heater core fine. fan & clutch work good. run truck up a hill and it gets hot? wtf
2005 getting hot?
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Welcome to the "Wonderful World of LLY Overheating". That's not meant to be funny, either. Its a problem that crops up in the LLYs.
Unfortunately there is no news from GM on this problem. It was ventured that GM was looking at fixes for this, but they are not forthcoming on if they are going to do anything about it.
The only fixes do far are being made by a couple of guys over at the Place. They built custom supplemental radiators, cold-air intakes and fan shroud extentions. KillerBee is a member here, send him a PM....
Unfortunately there is no news from GM on this problem. It was ventured that GM was looking at fixes for this, but they are not forthcoming on if they are going to do anything about it.
The only fixes do far are being made by a couple of guys over at the Place. They built custom supplemental radiators, cold-air intakes and fan shroud extentions. KillerBee is a member here, send him a PM....
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thanks for the link. the dealer tried to sell me some coolant addative? didnt think it would help but used it anyway. still fighting it.
Sadly, none of the "easy" fixes seem to work. The guys tried louvering the hood, lowering the air dam, cutting areas of the rad support, sealing the holes around the rad/intercooler, different engine oils, etc, etc. They even went so far as to install LB7 fan too. The way it looks is that GM screwed up the design of the cooling system in the LLY, they didn't add capacity to it to handle the changed heads/VVT/extra HP. IIRC, the LBZ has a larger cooling capacity.
Hmmm....that gives me an idea....you might want to check into that....see if an LBZ radiator has the same size body and the same openings, and see if it can handle additional cooling capacity, too.... Then see if the fan is interchangable too...
Hey, when all else fails, try the radical approach.
Hmmm....that gives me an idea....you might want to check into that....see if an LBZ radiator has the same size body and the same openings, and see if it can handle additional cooling capacity, too.... Then see if the fan is interchangable too...
Hey, when all else fails, try the radical approach.
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were looking into differant radiators now :shrug: the local dealers act like they have never heard of this before??
diesel71,
I'd PM KB, and ask his advice. Since he has wayyyyy more experience with this, he would be a better source to help you with possible solutions.
I just don't want to give you any incorrect info. Keep us informed as to what you find out.
BTW, jc is RIGHT! Dealers will pull the "What problem? We don't see any problem?" crap because GM KNOWS there's a problem, and it could potentially cost big money to fix...
I'd PM KB, and ask his advice. Since he has wayyyyy more experience with this, he would be a better source to help you with possible solutions.
I just don't want to give you any incorrect info. Keep us informed as to what you find out.
BTW, jc is RIGHT! Dealers will pull the "What problem? We don't see any problem?" crap because GM KNOWS there's a problem, and it could potentially cost big money to fix...
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not sure what other site you mean:shrug: im new to this web stuff. could you pm me the site or is that against the rules? and hey thanks for the help, if you need any help with a 6.0 im your guy:Thumbup:
G
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·Sorry for being GM dumb...but what is G-05?killerbee said:
:thanks:
Dave
G-05
Zerex G-05 is a gold colored clone of the coolant Ford has been using (Ford Gold) for diesel vehicles. Ford went through iterations of testing to determine suitabilty of coolant for anti-cavitation of the hi-flow diesel water pump and battle against liner cavitation pitting. They even considered dex-cool. If you look at the degas cap on the Powerstroke, you will find a stern warning against using Dex or it's clones for topping.
OAT-Organic Acid Technology protection-carboxylic acid based (Dex-cool)
HOAT- Hybrid OAT (G-05)
OAT completely lacks the proven silicate and phosphate elements that have worked so well in the past.
HOAT adds them back in, in small quantities to eliminate silicate precipitate common in causing historic water pump failure.
All evidence in my research and testing seems to indicate that Dex loses it's cavitation protection and PH buffer properties quickly over time in the diesel. Perhaps due to the extreme heat and affinity for trapped air. Significant cooling system improvement has been seen just by replacing the dex with new dex. I'm not a big fan of the stuff, and Ford isn't either. They did extensive testing on it and it didn't hold up, hence the warning.
I get G-05 at Pep Boys. Ford Gold will be 30% more expensive at the dealer.
One other thing I am experimenting with: small hole in the front stat. I have not been able to prove it, but I think that area could be collecting gas (often caused by classic pump gas cavitation), inhibiting thermostat function and creating excessive latency in cycling.
Zerex G-05 is a gold colored clone of the coolant Ford has been using (Ford Gold) for diesel vehicles. Ford went through iterations of testing to determine suitabilty of coolant for anti-cavitation of the hi-flow diesel water pump and battle against liner cavitation pitting. They even considered dex-cool. If you look at the degas cap on the Powerstroke, you will find a stern warning against using Dex or it's clones for topping.
OAT-Organic Acid Technology protection-carboxylic acid based (Dex-cool)
HOAT- Hybrid OAT (G-05)
OAT completely lacks the proven silicate and phosphate elements that have worked so well in the past.
HOAT adds them back in, in small quantities to eliminate silicate precipitate common in causing historic water pump failure.
All evidence in my research and testing seems to indicate that Dex loses it's cavitation protection and PH buffer properties quickly over time in the diesel. Perhaps due to the extreme heat and affinity for trapped air. Significant cooling system improvement has been seen just by replacing the dex with new dex. I'm not a big fan of the stuff, and Ford isn't either. They did extensive testing on it and it didn't hold up, hence the warning.
I get G-05 at Pep Boys. Ford Gold will be 30% more expensive at the dealer.
One other thing I am experimenting with: small hole in the front stat. I have not been able to prove it, but I think that area could be collecting gas (often caused by classic pump gas cavitation), inhibiting thermostat function and creating excessive latency in cycling.
Yes. I would do a good reverse flush regardless of coolant used. It is a good time to test the rad flow rate, albeit from the unscientific garden hose.
Demineralized water only for the fill. It resists cavitation best and consumes additives less.
OH, little tip for the avid Magnuson Moss worry warts and warranty denial evaders. 2 cc's of red food coloring, and she'll look exactly like Dex. :cheers
And stay away from jiffy lube
Demineralized water only for the fill. It resists cavitation best and consumes additives less.
OH, little tip for the avid Magnuson Moss worry warts and warranty denial evaders. 2 cc's of red food coloring, and she'll look exactly like Dex. :cheers
And stay away from jiffy lube
Hey Nathan, Welcome!
A few months ago, I discovered why the radiator never worked. I didn't really get it before. I saw how air starved the oem rad is. I saw this when I measured air temps behind the rad. Completely saturated, meaning the air temp was the same as the coolant temp. The resultant combination of inherrently poor aerodynamic design, and too much expectation out of the cooling system (colling system design team)
I experimented. Added airflow, by means of an air dam, allowed more heat to be carried off. The fan alone just doesn't do it, and I have a suspicion, that the LOUD fan is in stall, hence the big noise. High parasitic drag loss, low air movement. The LLY fan is overdriven IMO, with the smaller LLY pulley, a fan drive ratio way higher than industry norms. The delayed onset (due to low airflow) also allows the fan to heat up a lot, before it kicks on. Flex blades.
I have no doubt that RD makes a nice rad. But there are 2 sides to the heat transfer equation. Water heat transfer and air heat transfer. Either will be constraining. The resistive stack, makes the air side limiting in this case. So a thicker rad, while it may be beautiful, is going the opposite way, adding more resitance.
PS: sorry I never connected with you way back when, on your PCM
A few months ago, I discovered why the radiator never worked. I didn't really get it before. I saw how air starved the oem rad is. I saw this when I measured air temps behind the rad. Completely saturated, meaning the air temp was the same as the coolant temp. The resultant combination of inherrently poor aerodynamic design, and too much expectation out of the cooling system (colling system design team)
I experimented. Added airflow, by means of an air dam, allowed more heat to be carried off. The fan alone just doesn't do it, and I have a suspicion, that the LOUD fan is in stall, hence the big noise. High parasitic drag loss, low air movement. The LLY fan is overdriven IMO, with the smaller LLY pulley, a fan drive ratio way higher than industry norms. The delayed onset (due to low airflow) also allows the fan to heat up a lot, before it kicks on. Flex blades.
I have no doubt that RD makes a nice rad. But there are 2 sides to the heat transfer equation. Water heat transfer and air heat transfer. Either will be constraining. The resistive stack, makes the air side limiting in this case. So a thicker rad, while it may be beautiful, is going the opposite way, adding more resitance.
PS: sorry I never connected with you way back when, on your PCM
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killerbee said:
Hey KB,killerbee said:
There was a design I saw here at work a number of years ago (I doubt it's patented or patentable) ... we called it a jiggle valve (which is not really an accurate name). It was nothing more than a steel ball captured within a fitting which is screwed into a port on a thermostat housing. Whenever the ball would encounter trapped air it would drop down allowing the air to escape. Then, as soon as the air was gone, the coolant would push the ball back against a seat similar to a check valve. The downstream end of the jiggle valve would be plumbed to the radiator top tank or overflow tank to prevent coolant loss. Not sure if that helps with your experiment, but thought it might.
RJ
Oh, and thanks for the referral to TheDieselGarage!
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