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Junior Member
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Discussion Starter #1
I have not found alot on modifying and tuning on these 15.8L cats and trying to figure out which way to go with it. Turbo is the first thing.

Truck is a 98 W900, all stock with original equipment 1.2million miles
engine serial number 5DS00214

I'm in need of a new turbo as the fins have alot of chips on them. and seems like they've been getting worse. I called PDI and told them I was in need of a new turbo for a cat motor. He said I would need their Stage 1 turbo. I just wasn't sure if this would be what a 600HP would need as the guy said their stage 1 turbo is what the put on all cat engines.

I will also like to do some ecm tuning. Looking at anything that would keep this motor reliable and get the most fuel mileage increase that i can. When I do this turbo we will also be running the over head and doing a cylinder cut out test. some times i feel like i've got an injector thats a bit lazy.

One other thing i've been concerned a little about is the EGTs never seem to get hot. I dont member exactly but hottest i think i've seen it is around 7-800. although we dont have much for hills up in here ND we do have some and 90% of our loaded miles are close to the 105,500lb limit.
 

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Ol Dirt Contractor
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2,803 Posts
Hi Joel,

I noticed your serial on the 5DS motor was 5DS00214.. We have a Peterbilt with 5DS00225.. 5DS is rare, only a few hundred still running. We just mounted an experimental DPF filter for California on the motor and I'm getting better than expected results.. :surprise: DPF is rated to 650 HP. We will see......

In fact our 5DS has passed and legal for CA CARB without no noticeable drawbacks.. Maybe a pound or two in manifold pressure but power and torque seems good to go...

The turbo was replaced a number of years ago with a Mich Stage III which is an OR6051 Cat housing I believe. This turbo has done the job in power and milage but there are much better turbos out there now...

If Mr. Haney gets by here he might have some good ideas as he's a guru on this motor. I'm thinking of a turbo upgrade also..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes I have read a lot of mr haneys posts and I believe he would be the one to help get my truck back up to they way it should be. It pulls ok but I feel like it's not putting out the 600hp it's supposed to have. Right now I'm getting about 5 mpg hauling crude oil in North Dakota. I just had the over head ran and a few of the intake valves were tight one was very tight. But everything looked pretty good. I noticed a little difference in power. Also 2 and 5 injectors looked different from the rest so just assuming they were replaced. I feel some times I have a bad injector. And every now and then after I pull up to the well and have to move after a few I'll notice a blue cloud of smoke come out. But other then that it never smokes other then the normal light haze when shifting. I'd like to tune it and set it up for reliability and the best fuel mileage/power combination. It's my first truck and I never plan on getting rid of her.
 

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Ol Dirt Contractor
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2,803 Posts
Our 5DS motor has always been better on fuel mileage than people give them credit for. Last summer my son was running out of town in the middle of nowhere with a couple of new Cummins ISX motors. Hauling the same loads in bottom dumps, 80K gross, same speeds, all staying at the same motel, fueling at the same pumps and averaging between 20 and 25 gallons less fuel a day than the ISX's were using...

But of course running at their speeds on the hills he could keep a light throttle on the 5DS and he is used to soft pedal on that motor anyway. At the 1500 rpm sweet spot going up the hills he had to back way off just to keep from running over them.

I followed him about 50 miles in California traffic with the PU just after they put the DPF on and absolutely zero smoke. Not only that, the new exhaust stacks were absolutely clean after 50 miles just like a new emissions motor running DEF. We had to go to 90 degree 5" stacks because the emissions people want to keep the rain from getting in the DPF. I doubt moisture would ever reach the DPF with straight twin stacks buts that's their call...

The emissions people didn't know much about the 5DS motor but they were shocked at how clean it was before and after the DPF installation. We had to run an onboard opacity monitor with recording ability for about a month before they would OK the installation of the DPF due to the fact they had no experience with that motor. But keep in mind my son drives with a light foot as I did before he took over the truck.

People ask why didn't you get a new truck? Well, a new heavy haul truck set up the same way would be in the neighborhood of 160K and excise tax to boot.. Plus license and reg fees much higher, insurance also... And I believe the 5DS will out preform the new motors both in fuel mileage, (no DEF additive either) and power.. Also, a new truck is heavier by a thousand or two...

I can't help but think with the ultra low sulphur fuel and newer DPF design Cat might have been able to keep going with highway motors similar to the 5DS.
 
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Ol Dirt Contractor
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Update on the 5DS 3406 motor. About 3 months ago I put on a "Borg Warner S-Series Cat 3406E C15 Engine Turbo Charger 600 HP 175963" available on E-Bay for $1485 at this time.

Boost wise the waste-gate gives quicker air and works with the DPF much better at low end. We upped the fuel mileage a few percent over the Stage III OR6051 turbo. I'm surprised the California DPF is working out this well as I was very skeptical in the beginning.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
hey lowboy.
I see you picked out a new turbo for yours. I'm wondering how you decided on that one. i've been reading a lot and can't figure out which one to get or who to buy one from. PDI PP Bullydog. I'm not convinced that going with someone like PDI is really worth it as some have said they are just piecing turbos together. Just at a loss right now.

I put my truck on the dyno last week to finally get some numbers. going to post the pictures and hope someone can look at them and tell me if everything seems fine or if there is something going on.


If anyone knows how to get ahold of Mr Haney or could give him a message for me. My motor is the 5DS 15.8L 3406E. i'm pretty sure he has experience with this motor and would be able to get this thing to run a lot more efficiently. I want/need to do turbo and exhaust manifold but don't know which one is best for mine and would like to have something done on the ECM but I don't trust sending it to any of these companies that say they'll give you as much HP as you want. from what I understand different models of the 3406 like different things done to them.
 

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Ol Dirt Contractor
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2,803 Posts
Hi Joel,

The reason I cut down the turbo a little and went with the waste-gate (quick boost) was if you remember we put on a DPF filter in place of the right side toolbox for California emissions. I also lost my train horn secret hiding area but I'll find a new spot for the 5 chime Nathen horns this winter. That DPF is huge but it still looks just like the tool box as before..

This DPF is a new design opened up for the 600 HP motors and it seems to be doing the job without too much power loss and zero fuel mileage loss which surprised me. Were still using the dual stacks but straight through 5" with no baffles and it's super quiet even using the jake. Hard for me to believe, clean stacks, smogged and still good flow..

Ok, again, the DPF is not the way I wanted to go but we do a lot of heavy haul work in CA, 4 to 5K miles a month sometimes. A late model 3 axle with a DEF motor is not near as efficient as the 5DS 3406..

I wouldn't be afraid of the Borg Warner 175963 and at $1489 with no core return, I think it's a deal compared to the speed shop specials for 3K... That turbo is listed for the 15.8 L 966 ci motors... If Haney comes along he might have some better ideas but I'm happy with my new turbo.. I've prolly got the only 5DS in existence with a DPF filter.. lol
 
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Junior Member
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Discussion Starter #8
@Lowboy

well i think i've decided on a turbo to try out. I looked up that 175963 (S410G i think) BW turbo and seen a lot of guys were buying that and changing to a 1.32 non waste gated exhaust housing. Then I came across some post of guys saying BW now sells that setup in a turbo calling it the S478 P/N: 1496 988 0000. from what I can tell the 478 is the same as a 175963 just with the 1.32 exhaust.

I have no idea how its going to act on my truck or if i've even got this information right. Hopefully I do and hopefully this is what my truck needs. I'm tired of my poor mileage and getting beat by my buddies pulling the same hills with the same loads.

Haven't ordered it yet so if i'm wrong someone please tell me lol.

Thanks,
Merry Christmas everyone!
 

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Junior Member
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Discussion Starter #9
Well I believe I went with the s478 borg Warner. It’s a not wastegated turbo. Seemed to spool good and hold pretty well. Added a full tilt ceramic manifold as well. Can push 35 lbs of boost once I get up to about 1400rpms.

Still don’t think this truck is running all that good yet. With all the boost leaks I fixed and upgrades I haven’t really seen any difference in power or fuel economy other higher boost.

Every now and then when I pull onto location and have to back up a bit the engine will run rough and through some blew smoke when I’m on the throttle. As soon as I get in a forward gear and get some boost it goes away.
 
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