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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 97 f-250 2wd.
Zf-5
I had the flywheel and clutch, Throwout bearing, etc...replaced in February of this year with a duralast unit. I've replaced the Throwout bearing once since then(mid april), and put in a national seal and bearing Throwout bearing. This bearing is starting to chirp and squeal now as well.

The clutch pedal since I got it replaced seemed harder to push in than stock, I'm thinking maybe this pressure plate is stiffer than it should be and causing more pressure on the bearing than it should have. I don't know.

I'm wanting to know what are you alls opnions on brands Of clutches. I really liked my Luk clutch in my thunderbird supercoupe. But I was wondering what ones you guys have good luck with.


I replaced the clutch fork as well as the pedal pivot arm, slave cyl, and master cylinder when I put this newer throw put earring in.
 

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Stuck in Commiefornia...
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If your pedal effort is high and you are destroying release bearings, there may be an issue with that pressure plate. Did you machine or change the flywheel at the same time? Have you inspected the release bearing lever for signs of bending or wear? And how is the pivot for the lever?

I've done a lot of clutch work including building pressure plates and setting up racing clutches, and usually there is a reason for a heavy pedal. If you purchased a "heavy duty" pressure plate, designed for more torque capacity and they may have changed the setup of the pivots which will increase pedal effort.

For what it's worth, there is a reason for the popularity of some clutches. I had excellent results with South Bend on my 6.0L 6-Speed. Taking the time to make a call to a clutch manufacturer to get feedback on what parts you really need will result in you being much happier and ultimately spending less time and money to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks for the reply.


I have put in a new flywheel and clutch fork. The old was in terrible shape(the shop I had put it in didn't tell me that either until I pulled the tranny myself).
I tried to purchase a new pivot ball since I had the tranny pulled, but had no luck locating one. For some reason ford can't get them(surprise surprise), and I couldn't find an aftermarket source for them.
However, the ball did appear fine with no grooving to speak of, and it was smooth. So I just lubed it up, and put a bit of lube in the ball part of the fork.


My thought is as well this cheap pressure plate. I've driven many big trucks and this one is by far the hardest, I almost dread driving it sometimes in the city because it's so stiff, and I love manual trans! I will not buy an auto trans vehicle for my car. I've ne'er owned an auto trans vehicle.

I've looked at southbend clutches, just trying to find a decent price for one, I know you get what you pay for. Do you by chance know a part number for a basic southbend clutch kit?
Would you recommend changing flywheels out to a southbend flywheel or leave what I have(duralast)? I have a valair flywheel that was pulled out of the truck when I bought it along with a good valair friction plate. The valair pressure plate had a couple teeth missing because that Throwout bearing disintegrated.
I've thought of machining the valair flywheel I have and buying a valair pressure plate(if possible) and putting that together.

I've gone threw almost 2 release bearings in under 1500 miles.
I should have just replaced the whole assembly when I had to pull it myself, But oh well, live and learn I guess.
Atleast it only takes about 1.5 hours to pull the tranny lol.
 

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Stuck in Commiefornia...
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Like I said, I had a 6.0, and a dirty little secret that most clutch manufacturers don't let be known but the the at South Bend did, is that because the 6.0 uses a self adjusting pressure plate, modifying it is complicated and can make the pressure plate junk if done wrong, so they use a stock pressure plate in their single disc kits for the 6.0, or at least that was the case in 2008. So I had a single disc (stock pressure plate) with their CB - Ceramic Button disc. Torque holding capacity was excellent with that disc. It would squak on occasion, and chattered a bit when cold, but it had no problem holding power or towing at up to 22,000lbs gross combined.

That being said, their website is pretty basic. You can browse their offerings on their website. http://www.southbendclutch.com/1944ps5.html I'd suggest you be honest with yourself for power level and intended use, don't get "too much" clutch for your application. A heavy duty full organic clutch should be fine for an OBS 7.3 with a chip, an exhaust, and an air intake/6637 setup, running stock sticks and turbo.

The final thing to note is the truck's gear ratio and tire size will change the ability of the clutch. So basically, a 3.55 gear is harder on the clutch than a 4.10 gear, and a 30" tire is easier on the clutch than a 33" tire. In my case, I had 3.73 gears and. 35" tires, so I needed a clutch with more torque capacity than the stock clutch could handle running a tow tune that made 50hp/150tq more than stock.

Now, there is one more thing, Kevlar might make a fantastic bullet proof vest, but it's a terrible clutch facing material. Organic facings, including asbestos (yes it's still available and why you still shouldn't use compressed air to blow out bell housings or clutches) will provide the smoothest engagement and longest life when matched to the application and used with the correct clamp force from the pressure plate.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ok, thanks for the info.

I have 4.10's, and whatever size 265's are. I don't have a tune, but I do plan on getting a ts6 tuner(maybe in the next year) and also getting a wicked wheel compressor wheel. I have a 3" down pipe to straight pipe 4" exhaust.
I also have the 6637 air filter as well.
Also plan on getting a set of better injectors and HPOP when these decide to bite the dust(still going strong at 215k)

I was looking at the clutch kit one up from stock on their website.
I think that'll be enough for my future upgrades as well, but not sure.
I don't see most if the expensive upgrades happening for another 2 or more years.


Thanks for the advice
 

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That's where you want to be. That would be just enough clutch with 4.10s on that small tire for a set of Baby Swamps 150/146 injectors or 160cc AC code injectors (depending if your truck has single shots or split shots now) and a slightly better turbo with an intercooler, and an appropriate set of tunes on a chip. But I wouldn't push it much harder than that.

And a 265/75-16 is about a 31" tire.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ok, thanks for all the info.
Idk why I said 265, That could have been any size. They are 265-75-16.
Again, Thanks for the help.

Do you but direct from south bend?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I ended up buying the 1944-5or from southbend.
I plan on installing it this weekend.
I had my old flywheel machined, they took .005 off and it's in perfect condition, No heat cracks or checks anywhere.

I searched this forum for torque specs but didn't find any for my truck.
So, just curious if anyone knows the specs for flywheel to crank and pressure plate to flywheel.
Thanks!
 

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South Bend is pretty good about including the torque specs. They did with mine.

If you don't have specs, you should be able to gather them with a quick google search by fastener size.

Words of advice: Everything needs to be clean and free of oil, friction surfaces, fasteners, everything including your hands while you put it together. And use a drop of blue loctite on the first couple threads of the flywheel and pressure plate bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
South Bend is pretty good about including the torque specs. They did with mine.

If you don't have specs, you should be able to gather them with a quick google search by fastener size.

Words of advice: Everything needs to be clean and free of oil, friction surfaces, fasteners, everything including your hands while you put it together. And use a drop of blue loctite on the first couple threads of the flywheel and pressure plate bolts.


They included an install manual.....for a dodge! So, idk about this one. They didn't send the heavy duty cast iron throw out bearing like they say they come with, nor did it have the mounting bolts. I've already contacted the place were I bought it from. Still waiting to get a reply.
I've searched google and haven't been able to find the pressure plate torque specs, Found the flywheel tho.

I planned on using loc-tite.



I guess I can always use grade 8 bolts in the flywheel, but I'm Not sure what thread the crank is. Hopefully they'll send my the correct bolts and Throwout bearing before Friday.
 

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Contact your vendor and work through it with them on the release bearing. Sometimes new pressure plates come with new bolts, but not always. If you're concerned you've got the wrong parts and your vendor doesn't work with you to verify, take the step of calling South Bend Clutch directly, and get some peace of mind. They will also be able to provide you with the correct torque specs and fastener sizes so you can do the job right. Just have patience and work through it, and you'll be alright.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Contact your vendor and work through it with them on the release bearing. Sometimes new pressure plates come with new bolts, but not always. If you're concerned you've got the wrong parts and your vendor doesn't work with you to verify, take the step of calling South Bend Clutch directly, and get some peace of mind. They will also be able to provide you with the correct torque specs and fastener sizes so you can do the job right. Just have patience and work through it, and you'll be alright.




I am, I contacted them on the weekend so I don't expect to hear from then later today.
I know I have the correct parts(except the Throwout bearing isn't what i wanted), the friction plate matches my old one, diameter and spline. and the pressure plate bolts up correctly to the flyheel, They did include the Kevlar pilot bushing, which I like a lot better than those roller bearing bushing.

I'll call the place I got it from this evening if I don't receive an email before that. I'll call southbend if I can't get anything accomplished.

I used to work for ford, so I know a couple guys in the shop still that could get me the specs when I see them, but I figured it would be easier to ask here since I can check it more often than I see the guys I worked with.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I contacted southbend and the clutch kit for my trans (zf5) doesn't come with full cast iron Throwout bearing. No where on their website does it specify year model or trans model for that bearing. SoC. I have just a regular Throwout bearing.
They also said since it came from a rep that it didn't include any bolts. And just to use grade 8 bolts. I have th size for the pressure plate to flywheel(5/16-18 I believe) but does anyone know the flywheel to crank bolt size? I'm trying to get everything bought before I pull it so I don't have to go and run to get stuff.

Also, what is the torque on the flywheel to crank bolts. He first told me 90 ft/lbs, Then he told me that the older diesel trucks were 30-40ft/lbs. the 90 seems right to me. And he told me 25 ft/lbs for the PP.




Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Finally got ahold of one of my buddies at ford. Correct torque spec is....

Flywheel to crank-75-85 ft/lbs


Pressure plate to flywheel- 20-24ft/lbs


Now, does any one know for sure what the flywheel bolt size is?
My guess would be a 3/8-16 or 7/16-14. But I don't know for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Got the clutch installed lastnight. Feels great! I would estimate that the old one took about 80-90lbs of pushing to push the pedal in. The new one seems to take around 30-40lbs. Much better.

The pilot bearing had disenegrated, the pressure plate wasnt clamping evenly. Some finger were laying flat while about the other half were pointing outwards.
The pressure plate and flywheel had terrieble heat spots and cracks for some reason. This clutch has maybe 2k miles on it.
 

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Good deal, you worked through it and now it's right so you can maybe enjoy your efforts.

They should have given you some sort of break-in instructions. Be sure to follow them. A little advice from someone with 26 years in the automotive industry, I'll tell you the first 500 miles shoul be lots of smooth but deliberate clutch actions, don't slip the clutch, and don't lug the engine. Use low for every take off during that first 500 miles, and don't tow anything or haul any heavy loads. Also, avoid long stints on the highway, if possible, because highway miles let the disc cool off and prevent it from seeing the repeated heat cycles it needs for proper break in, extended highway distances that lead to a good hill or grade can even cause the clutch to slip if it's cooled down too much before an unexpected increase in load.

Again, congrats on completing the install.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Good deal, you worked through it and now it's right so you can maybe enjoy your efforts.

They should have given you some sort of break-in instructions. Be sure to follow them. A little advice from someone with 26 years in the automotive industry, I'll tell you the first 500 miles shoul be lots of smooth but deliberate clutch actions, don't slip the clutch, and don't lug the engine. Use low for every take off during that first 500 miles, and don't tow anything or haul any heavy loads. Also, avoid long stints on the highway, if possible, because highway miles let the disc cool off and prevent it from seeing the repeated heat cycles it needs for proper break in, extended highway distances that lead to a good hill or grade can even cause the clutch to slip if it's cooled down too much before an unexpected increase in load.

Again, congrats on completing the install.




Ive enjoyed driving it now!
They gave me break in instructions. It's gonna take me forever to drive 500 miles. I've had the truck since February and have put right at 2200 miles on it. When they say don't haul anything, Would that include a 500# quad? I buy and sell quads, bikes, and ATC. I wouldn't think throwing one of those in the bed would be a big issue, but I figured is ask.
My next question is.....

When I got the truck the pivot lever pin for the clutch pedal was so worn out that I drilled the pin out and stuck a bolt thru it since the master cylinder eyelet was destroyed as well. I bought a new master cylinder and clutch lever. How do you set it up correctly as it cuts it's own grooves into the lever as it tightens onto the pedal shaft. Also, my clutch pedal is about 2"-3" higher than my brake pedal.
I've found the whole clutch/brake pedal assembly that I've continuo later buying since the bushings on the pedal rod are worn pretty bad and have slop in them. Even tho buying a new assembly, I still need to know how to set the lever up on the shaft since it doesn't appear to be already installed on the shaft when they ship it.

Thanks for any insight. I used to work at a ford dealership and had access to rotunda, I thought I remembered reading that you just put the lever on the master cylinder rod an then slide it into the shaft and tighten the nut up. But, I can't remember for sure and I no longer have access to that site.
 

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The bigger question is where your engagement point is in te pedal travel. You should be fully disengaged about 1-1/2" to 2-1/2" before you get to the floor, and the clutch should be fully engaged at 1"-2" from the top. Your substitute bolt or your adjustment is probably too long.

It's not like 500lbs isn't less than the difference between a single cab 2wd and a crew cab 4wd, so no, 500lbs isn't going to hit you. Just don't load the bed with 3,000lbs or hook a trailer, it really does need a proper break in period. Lots of short trips with stop and go are the best thing for it.
 
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