The Diesel Garage banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
what does not kill you ..
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am looking at buying a used international rated at 33,000lbs

Is there anyway in The republic of New York State to change the GVWR so I do not need to get all my employees CDL licenses?????

I need it titled at less than 26,000lbs In New York if it is registered for 26,000 it does not matter it is what it was rated when built.

wftree
 

·
'Ol Builder guy
Joined
·
7,051 Posts
wftree said:
I am looking at buying a used international rated at 33,000lbs

Is there anyway in The republic of New York State to change the GVWR so I do not need to get all my employees CDL licenses?????

I need it titled at less than 26,000lbs In New York if it is registered for 26,000 it does not matter it is what it was rated when built.

wftree
Yes, you just register the truck at 26,000 when you apply for the registration when you buy it. What you'll have difficulty with is if it has airbrakes. Even if you de-register it to 26,000lbs, it will be tough to explain to the cops why a non-cdl driver is driving a truck without an airbrake endorsement. :nunu:

Make sure you buy a hydraulic braked truck to lower the hassle factor significantly.
 

·
what does not kill you ..
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Duke said:
Yes, you just register the truck at 26,000 when you apply for the registration when you buy it. What you'll have difficulty with is if it has airbrakes. Even if you de-register it to 26,000lbs, it will be tough to explain to the cops why a non-cdl driver is driving a truck without an airbrake endorsement. :nunu:

Make sure you buy a hydraulic braked truck to lower the hassle factor significantly.
That does not work in New York. They go buy the titles GVW not the registered weight.

wftree
 

·
'Ol Builder guy
Joined
·
7,051 Posts
wftree said:
That does not work in New York. They go buy the titles GVW not the registered weight.

wftree
Then the only thing left I can think of is to have the truck re-titled at a lower weight, but if it's got airbrakes you're still screwed.

I swear, New York sounds worse than Kalyfornya. :damnit

You have my sympathy.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,836 Posts
A body builder in your state has the labels for the door jamb to go with the modifications to the truck that change the GCWR and GVWR. Then a trip to the scales in most states.

Most states have a class D for pickups and such that need an endorsement for hazmat, no reason not to have an airbrake on a D CDL. Doubles - maybe not.

keydl
 

·
'Ol Builder guy
Joined
·
7,051 Posts
Another possibility is to "disable" the truck somehow to cause you to have to have the truck derated, like LoPro wheels & tires, removal of a helper spring, etc.

Seems like the easier path is to just find a 26K GVWR truck with juice brakes. They're so many of them out there becaue no one wants to get their CDL.
 

·
what does not kill you ..
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The other issue to find a 26,000lbs truck is that it needs a 110,000 psi frame to mount the aerial lift. That heavy of a frame usually only comes in a 33,000 lbs truck unless it is special ordered.

wftree

I have tried to get the answer from the DMV LOL
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
3,754 Posts
I dont know about New york, but in IL the drivers license a standard license says ANY single vehicle w/a weigh rating under 2600l lbs. SOME cops i have talked say your regular license is good on any vehicle and any brakes. OTHER state cops have told me you need an air brake endorsement, and since you cant get an air brake endorsement on a class d license if it has air brakes you need a class b cdl. AGain these are different answers i got from state cops so I dont know how new york is.
 

·
'Ol Builder guy
Joined
·
7,051 Posts
thejdman04 said:
I dont know about New york, but in IL the drivers license a standard license says ANY single vehicle w/a weigh rating under 2600l lbs. SOME cops i have talked say your regular license is good on any vehicle and any brakes. OTHER state cops have told me you need an air brake endorsement, and since you cant get an air brake endorsement on a class d license if it has air brakes you need a class b cdl. AGain these are different answers i got from state cops so I dont know how new york is.
If that cop was right, then what's the use of having an airbrake endorsement in the 1st place?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
3,754 Posts
well like i said thats what the license says any single vehicle under 26000lbs and as the cops said you cant get an air brake endorsement on a d license so your good to go. The problem is all cops interpret it how they want.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,836 Posts
The results for the state tests on CDL are consolidated so that you are only supposed to have to test each endorsement once. Passing the air brakes for a B CDL puts the endorsement in the file even if you never do the B driving test.

Last time I was there the posted price for a DL was $15 and the cost for a CDL was $50 plus $10 for each endorsement but I was told that that if I only wanted to pay for the CDL that the test results for the endorsements were in the file and I would just need to pay for them. A trooper is a source of information on how he will do his job, the first place to ask is the commercial examiner. There are antique vehicles with air brakes under 26k intended gross - they don't have a door jamb label. That information is in the owners manual that went into the owners file so the drivers would not get it dirty.

You might look for the law online and print a copy to help in getting the gov. employees to follow the law instead of their perception of what the law should be.

keydl
 

·
what does not kill you ..
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
In New York you DO NOT need a airbrake endorsement under 26,001. only over that. I know it does not make any sense but expecting the government to use common sense is crazy!

wftree
 

·
'Ol Builder guy
Joined
·
7,051 Posts
I'm not picking on you, but that seems really stupid to require training to operate airbrakes only to let it slide on a non commercial license. Air brakes do require special training to understand. You should have to take at least a course on airbrakes and pass a test.

Just goes to show you cops are people too, and no smarter than a well educated driver. Probably less, in fact.
 

·
'Ol Builder guy
Joined
·
7,051 Posts
CarterKraft said:
I don't have a air brake endorsement or a CDL.

My rig is titled under 26k though.
Does it have airbrakes?

Trucks under 26,001 with airbrakes are RARE. I can't remember seeing more than a few my whole life. Most were built before CDL licensing even existed.

I'm sure you can order a truck with a 26.001 or less rating with airbrakes, but according to my sources, you need a CDL to drive it solely because of the airbrakes, not the weight.

This stuff is so friggin stupid. Sometimes I wonder how these idiots that we have in government haven't regulated trucks right off the road.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I would not even think of trying to go around the myraid of laws that are out there. I too agree that the right hand does not know what the left is doing when it comes to license and GVW and MFG weight vs. registered weight. I am just finishing getting rid of an over CDL mfg. truck that was mfg. at 29k and I licensed for 26k thinking that would be good. Well last Sept. parked at scale coming into Washington and the officer there stated it is mfg. weight that the state goes by. He looked up my VIN in the computer and it stated mfg. weight. He gave me a pass, but I decided not to get my CDL because that now means IFTA taxes if you go out of state, DOT inspections, Log books etc. I only put 4k miles a year on in the summer and don't need another tax to report or stop at scales. I would just find the under CDL rig that fits your needs and buy it. There are some below CDL trucks out there with a higher mfg. GVW than 26k that you can find that are mfg. rated for
26k that is perfectly legal. Also derate not an option. Air brakes don't matter here in Washington either. Good Luck. John
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,445 Posts
I dont know about New york, but in IL the drivers license a standard license says ANY single vehicle w/a weigh rating under 2600l lbs. SOME cops i have talked say your regular license is good on any vehicle and any brakes. OTHER state cops have told me you need an air brake endorsement, and since you cant get an air brake endorsement on a class d license if it has air brakes you need a class b cdl. AGain these are different answers i got from state cops so I dont know how new york is.
In IL a class d license is the standard licens and it only alows 16000 pounds or less on any single vehicle a class c licens alows for 26000 pound or less on any single vehicle when I drove a tow truck the truck I drove had air brakes and acording to state law I only had to get a class c licens. sorry im not trying to be a smart arss just trying to help I dont no how my boss went about it but he had the gvw changed to 26000 pounds so all the drivers didnt have to get a cdl so I hope this helps good luck
 

·
Member
Joined
·
236 Posts
GVW change

Here is where FL gets you:
DEFINITION OF COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE
For the purposes of compliance with the safety regulations, a commercial motor vehicle
is any self-propelled or towed vehicle used on the public highways in commerce to
transport passengers or cargo, if such vehicle:
1. Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or more;
2. Is designed to transport more than 15 passengers including the driver; or
3. Is used in the transportation of hazardous materials.
This definition is not limited to vehicles operated by a trucking company. Such vehicles
operated by any business or commercial enterprise will be subject to the regulations.

So if the title weight is more than 10K FL treats it as a commercial vehicle. So you would need one of those totally worthless Class D CDL's to drive it. Also would need indorsements. However, it says IN COMMERCE so if you are using it for pleasure that law doesn't apply. Good luck convincing them you are doing it for fun.

Feds say anything over 26K requires CDL so all endorsements would apply if over 26K. FL will allow you to title it at any weight equal to or above what the manufacturer put on the title when it was made. Luckily my F350 said 7500 from Ford so I get to title it under 8K which even exempts me from weight laws. Gets better, I have an 81 S1700 4 door with a title weight of 5800. Bet that will drive a motor carrier compliance guy nuts for a medium duty to have a 6K tag and air brakes. Yea, it came with air brakes.

In the end the license is the easy part. Pay the $70 every 6 years and get a CLASS A CDL with air brakes. Just one less thing to fight about beside the road. I would be far more concerned with him treating me as commercial if I weren't really commercial. That is what gets ugly and expensive. Means the difference between $800 a year (pleasure) for insurance and about $4,000 (commercial) for the same truck, same weight.

They get real funny down here with RV's. If you have a "toter home" you can pull a gooseneck with it and be OK. Put a 5th wheel on it, hook up a trailer and you are commercial and get a whole ticket book thrown at you. 5th wheel is safer than a gooseneck but who cares about that, this is the government we are talking about.

Go visit some racing bullentin boards and you will see FL is a popular place to hate DOT officers. No common sense. While he has you beside the road for hours harrassing you about your hobby 3500 COMMERCIAL trucks went by with drivers jacked up on no telling what, texting on their cell phone, sending an email on their blackberry, and eating a cheese burger, cruise set on 75 and steering with one knee. You can tell i love them too!!!
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
645 Posts
I am looking at buying a used international rated at 33,000lbs

Is there anyway in The republic of New York State to change the GVWR so I do not need to get all my employees CDL licenses?????

I need it titled at less than 26,000lbs In New York if it is registered for 26,000 it does not matter it is what it was rated when built.

wftree
If you are in the "Republic of New York" then why worry about it you have a right to travel by the normal conveyance of the day, No license necessary. But if you are a legal fiction (resident;slave), in the "State of New York" then run Agriculture plates.

Not many people refer to their state as a Republic

are you a freeman?
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
54 Posts
Does it have airbrakes?

Trucks under 26,001 with airbrakes are RARE. I can't remember seeing more than a few my whole life. Most were built before CDL licensing even existed.

I'm sure you can order a truck with a 26.001 or less rating with airbrakes, but according to my sources, you need a CDL to drive it solely because of the airbrakes, not the weight.

This stuff is so friggin stupid. Sometimes I wonder how these idiots that we have in government haven't regulated trucks right off the road.
I realize this is an old thread, but....

Under CDL trucks with air brakes are quite common and you do not need a CDL just because it has air brakes.

The other posters are right there is no air brake endorsement.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top