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Discussion Starter #61
Got her all apart and found a blown o-ring on the HPO discharge tube. Same one as last time. I had a spare with me so I installed it and also changed the o-ring on top of the HPOP that seals the pump to the cover. I put air into the top of the HPOP with the cover off and had no leaks. I then put the cover on and blew air in the ICP port. I heard a small leak but didn't think much about it as the only thing that was different was the cover was on which holds the regulator. I should have pulled the cover back off and double checked the o-ring. I now suspect that the o-ring for the cover or the IPR is still leaking. Probably the 0-ring.

So I got everything back together only to discover that the engine still wont start and the ICP pressure is only about 200 psi while cranking. So now I'm going to the dealer on Monday to get all new o-rings and do it all over again. At least I'm getting good taking it apart and putting it back together.

I found the exhaust leak. It was a loose v-band clamp at the inlet to the EGR cooler. The inside of the clamp was all covered with soot and there was soot all around.

The articles in the previous post are good but my HPOP system is a bit different. My problems all started a few years ago with the classic blown ICP sensor.

Has anyone ever tried to pressure test the high pressure system with real hydraulic pressure? I was thinking about using a hand pump to put oil pressure into the ICP port just like an air test but actually pump it to 3500 psi or so. Maybe this will save me from another complete teardown.

Any thoughts???
 

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Seems like too much of a coincidence that the same oring is blown out again. I'm thinkin your IPR is malfunctioning or there is a restriction in its circuit allowing overpressurization. Or there is a deformality in the connection to allow the oring to slip out of place. I can only imagine if I was in your shoes, there would be bullet holes in the truck at the bottom of a cliff. Just kidding. My thoughts are, its something right there in the pump area. I would probably replace any suspect tubing/connectors and the IPR, and check the IPR connector for sound electrical integrity. Again good luck, I hope this is the final round for you. We will all learn from this one. Harry

P.S. Forgot about your question. I don't know of any hand pumps that could supply that kind of pressure. Maybe a hydraulic jack could, I don't know.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
I think the o-ring failures this time were caused by me. The dealer was out of stock when I went for parts and so I went to my favorite hydraulic shop and found what I thought was suitable replacements. Apparently not. I'm going to Ford Monday morning to get OEM o-rings even if I have to wait for them.

This is a link to a McMaster Carr catalog page of a hand operated hydraulic pump that I think will work to pressure test the high pressure oil system with real hydraulic pressure before I reassembly everything.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hydraulic-pumps/=8ez194 item number: 2942T6

Has anyone done this type of test before?

Does the IPR go fully closed with no power applied? If it does not, then this test won't work.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
When I put air into the ICP port with the IPR and the HPOP cover installed I can hear air leaking inside the HPOP cover. Its either the o-ring on top of the discharge tube or the IPR.

I pulled the HPOP cover and put air pressure into the top of the discharge tube I did not notice any leaks at the quick connect fitting like I have before.

I went to the hardware store and found a rubber stopper that I pushed into the HPOP cover where the HPOP discharge tube goes. Then I applied air pressure to the ICP port. The IPR seems to be passing air.

I'm not sure of one thing. Does the IPR close fully when electrically disconnected? My guess is it should. I think some sort of debris may have gotten inside the IPR and stuck between the valve seats.
 

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All I can find is that the IPR has a pressure relief valve that opens at 4000 psi. And that the IPR is pcm controlled. So what its telling me is, if the pcm is not controlling the IPR for whatever reason, then it should be closed. Otherwise it shouldn't need a pressure relief valve if it was open. This is the most logical, but sometimes logic dosen't apply. If your IPR is passing air, then I would think its the pressure relief valve stuck open, or the valve stuck, but maybe not. Does the IPR have an electrical signal with just the key on? If so, try the pressure test again with the key on and the IPR plugged in. Shouldn't make a difference, unless it works opposite of what I said, and it closes with power applied and is open with out power. (update)=found this, http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-05-17.php
It says you must close the IPR to perform the air pressure test. To me that means its open until power is applied to the IPR. Good luck again. Harry
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Well Harry was right. The IPR is open with no power. I set up a test where I put air pressure into the ICP port and plugged the hole in the HPOP cover with a rubber stopper. (See picture in previous post) Then I "hot wired" the coil to 12 volts and the air stopped. So the lesson learned is the IPR is normally open and it takes power to close.

I repeated the test with the IPR and HPOP cover installed on the engine. When the IPR was energized all leaking air stopped. In the process I found an intermittant connection to the IPR. Once again, persistance and pure dumb luck paid off. I am confident this intermitant connection caused my problem this time. It may also explain why I would see erratic ICP pressure. Another lesson learned... check ALL the simple things first, then jump in to disassembly. Also just because you found one problem test everything again as you are reassembling. I was too eager to go back in after a leaking o-ring when there were really two seperate problems. One o-ring and an intermitant IPR connector. If I had checked the IPR better, I would have found the intermitant connections and not had to tear down the engine twice in one weekend.

I then called Ford to get a new connector and guess what... "That part is not available but we can sell you the entire harness" I said no thanks and called International. $25.00 and UPS Red Shipment and I will have the new connector and pigtail in the morning.

Back some time ago I mentioned where I connected the ICP and other signals to a terminal strip for monitoring. I have two spare terminals so I'm going to wire the IPR circuit to these terminals for future testing and troubleshooting. Might come in handy some day.
 
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Discussion Starter #67
Hooray!! Got the new pigtail. Finished installing everything and it started on the first crank. ICP came up just like its supposed to. No codes indicating. Drives good too. While driving the ICP pressure didnt have the intermitant jitters that it had before.

Thanks again to all who offered advice and incouragement.
 

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Glad its all ok now. Were all high pressure pump and IPR experts now. Good to know that a repair connector is available from International. This has been a great thread. Harry
 

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fixinityourself-----great post in page 3 post 28 in the first pic is that oring/seal supposed to be loose. i know mine has a lot of play did yours?
 

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One thing to think about is that if your truck just died, and you try to check base oil pressure with just cranking the engine, you may only see like 2-6psi. The truck at running idle only has about 12psi and opperating temp, 24psi @ 1200 rpm, and 45psi @ 1800rpm. If you verified base engine oil pressure, and the truck still wont run, unplug your ICP sensor (pass. side front valve cover) and the system will default and trick the computer into thinking its got the 500psi or so needed to fire the injectors, if that doesnt work you should continue on with a HPOP air leak test. I have seen injector o-rings fail, STC fittings, HPOP, IPR sensor, and standpipe/dummy plugs fail. If you need info on the air test, I got some info that would help. And as far as the sensor locations, they are on the oil cooler housing between the cooler and turbo
 

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Discussion Starter #72
To Kidn1980 - The o-ring that my picture is pointing to becomes a swivel so that the discharge pipe can be swung out of the way so that the HPOP can be removed. Mine just turns nicely and there is no excess play either direction. With everything together and the HPOP cover off, I put shop air into the top of the HPOP discharge pipe and I got no air leaks anywhere. Use a rubber tipped air nozzle and just shove it into the pipe. I suppose if your o-ring is loose and there feels like excessive play then I would replace it. have you tried putting air into the HPOP system?

On another note... My HPOP troubles are over. (Knock-on-wood) I still have the high pressure gauge connected and I look at it every now and then. The gauge stays tucked in under the hood just incase I need it.

I did have one other problem recently. Turns out I got as bad load of fuel and the big oil filter clogged up and I lost fuel pressure. The engine would run but when hard accelerating it would die out. I installed a 0-100psi oil pressure gauge at the test port on the fuel filter assembly and the problem was revealed. When pulling away from a stop light and getting on it hard the fuel pressure would drop down to about 20psi or less. Let off the throttle and the pressure would return. New filters and the pressure holds steady at 50psi.
 
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Discussion Starter #73
I just read thru a great thread by kidn1980. All 16 pages. His troubles are a prime example of how persistance can pay off. Congrats are due him and all those who offered assistance. Others have said what I truly believe that following a methodical troubleshooting plan will eventually lead you to the source of the problem. Troubleshoot, Diagnose, Repair, is not just a saying.... It is the only way to fix these engines.

So my troubles now are this....

One day out of the blue, the truck wont start when engine is hot. Truck runs fine. Engine oil, High Pressure oil and fuel pressures are all normal. I have mechanical gauges on all three and watch them closely. HPOP pressure is only 200 psi while cranking. Experiance says I get about 700 psi while cranking normally and it fires right up and then the pressure jumps to about 1200psi at idle. Hard acceleration the pressure goes to 4000 like it should.

I did a shop air test on the HPOP system and I hear air leaking in the oil fill tube no matter if the IPR is energized or not. I'm suspecious of the o-ring on the HPOP discharge tube...again.

On a side note, the turbo has been showing signs of sticky vanes again so I thought I would pull the turbo and clean it again while going after the HPOP o-ring and or the IPR. I got two of the three mounting bolts off the turbo and guess which one I couldn't get? Yup, the one in the back. I tried and tried but it would not budge. I took the truck to a great local shop just to have someone else with bigger knuckles give it a try. After he gets the turbo off I will continue the work.

This mechanic tells me that Ford or International has come up with an upgraded or redesigned HPOP discharge tube. Does anybody have any experiance with this so called upgraded discharge tube? Pictures would be great!! If the HPOP O-ring is blown out again, I am not putting this thing back together without doing something to prevent it in the future. I suppose I could design one myself but if its allready invented, why reinvent the wheel.

And so the fun begins again....
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Today I got the truck back home and began disassembly down to the HPOP. With the HPOP cover off I put shop air into the top of the HPOP and had no leaks. I then tested the IPR which is still in the HPOP cover. I jammed a rubber stopper into the cover where the discharge tube connects. Applied air to the ICP port and momentarily energized the IPR. When the IPR was deenergized air would pass thru it. When the IPR was energized all air stopped. This tells me the IPR is working, for the moment. Could the IPR still be flakey and sticking open intermitantly? How else can the IPR be tested? Does this sound correct?

So now what should I do to find the source of the low HPOP pressure when the engine is hot? I'm thinking of wiring in a switch that will allow me to momentarily apply 12 volts to the IPR apart from the PCM. This should force the IPR closed and allow the HPOP pressure to build enough to start the engine. If this works then I probably have an intermitant electrical connection somewhere else between the IPR and PCM. (Intermitants are such fun to find!!)
 

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sounds like you have your hands full....as for the ipr fully closing i just reached back there unplugged from ipr and spliced and had my son go straight to battery terminals but for now more then 30sec that way i know it was getting 12v and closing for sure.
 

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Sounds like a flakey IPR. Would a 12v momentary switch give any kind of bad feedback to the PCM? Maybe it is a weak IPR, I think they work off of a 5v system. The 12v you applied may have been a big enough push to close the valve as desired.
 

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Pretty sure the IPR does work off of the 12V system.
 

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Just checked my Ford resourse, the IPR operates with a 5 volt referance from the PCM. That is why you can only use 12 volts to test in short bursts.I still think I am right as said in post 76.
 

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Boy now I am confused!! looked at one spec and showed IPR uses a 5 volt referance, looked at a second spec and it shows up to battery voltage. I will try to down load both of these and let you decide.
 
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