The Diesel Garage banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2000 International 4700 with a DT466e. The liner seal in cylinder 4 is leaking (I found coolant in the oil, drained the fluids and pulled the pan to verify).

I'm entertaining a proper in-frame rebuild or possibly just replacing the single liner. However, if we keep the truck as a farm vehicle, it will be hard to justify either of those costs.

Understanding this truck would likely only see 500-1000 miles per year for delivering hay, is there any reason to think a ginger based stop-leak product would solve the problem enough?

Thanks,
Chris
 

·
Fire App. Mech.
Joined
·
982 Posts
Any quantity of of glycol is very detrimental to the oil's lubricating qualities.

Any chance the weather is such that you could get away with straight water for coolant? Back in the old days, with like a quadruple dose of Penray cavitation additive, this was acceptable if the climate allowed. I think this came from a Detroit Diesel manual, printed about 1993 if memory serves.

In the even older days, some engines used methanol for anti freeze.

I agree with such low mileage, alternatives are worth considering.

My dad has a 1953 Case tractor with leaking liners that he sometimes drains the water off the bottom of the pan before starting it. He's been running it hard like that for many years but it's like a 1200 RPM motor with poured bearings, so it's not a fair comparison.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
282 Posts
Best would be an inframe. Might be able to patch it by just replacing the o-rings on the liner. Other wise when it is sitting it will just be ruining the engine and then it won't be worth anything. Inframe kit isn't too expensive.
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Any chance the weather is such that you could get away with straight water for coolant? Back in the old days, with like a quadruple dose of Penray cavitation additive, this was acceptable if the climate allowed.
I'm in Western Massachusetts, so no straight water for at least half the year. I could use it just to get stop leak into the system and then switch back. Are o-ring failures typically small enough gaps for stop leak to be of any help?

Best would be an inframe. Might be able to patch it by just replacing the o-rings on the liner... Inframe kit isn't too expensive.
I do understand an in-frame would be best [for the truck], but with the limited use, spending that money may not be in the best interest of this small farm.

About how much money / time would be saved by simply repairing the single liner seals?

Thanks - Chris
 

·
Aimless Wanderer
Joined
·
929 Posts
I'm in Western Massachusetts, so no straight water for at least half the year. I could use it just to get stop leak into the system and then switch back. Are o-ring failures typically small enough gaps for stop leak to be of any help?



I do understand an in-frame would be best [for the truck], but with the limited use, spending that money may not be in the best interest of this small farm.

About how much money / time would be saved by simply repairing the single liner seals?

Thanks - Chris
To dissassemble the engine enough to repair a single liner leak, (doubt that is the only leaker) really would be a small amount. Liner seals themselves are about $4.00 each with either two or three seals per liner. The head gasket set, oil pan set, and a lot of the miscellaneous small parts needed to remove the head are already purchased. No sense taking it apart a second time when so close to doing it correct the first go round.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
282 Posts
Inframe kit complete runs $1000-$1500. You have to take it apart anyhow.
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
It is sounding more like there is not an inexpensive solution that would buy me 20,000 miles or so. I was really looking forward to using this truck. I was looking for the inexpensive solution so we could justify using it on the farm.

Looks like I'll do the in-frame rebuild and sell the truck (the only way for me to recoup the cost of the rebuild). Perhaps I'll try selling it as-is for now until I can do the rebuild.

Thanks - Chris
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
13 Posts
Hi Cray, I'm also on here looking for an inexpensive repair to a "leaking sleeve" apparrently, without doing a full in-frame rebuild.

What did you end up doing? Did you do it yourself, how hard was it, how long did it take, and how much did it cost you. I have the same truck, and am in the same situation it seems you were.

Thanks,

Benji
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Benji,

I did not find an acceptable "partial/temporary fix" solution. I put the truck up for sale "as is" as I have found myself without much spare time. If I do go through the trouble of doing an in-frame.. I will likely keep it.

Thanks,
Chris
 

·
Junior Member
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I recently found myself in a position where it was worth the risk to try a temporary / quick fix.

I consider this a risky effort and I recognize that it may result in larger problems than just a few leaking cylinder liners. In my case, the immediate benefit significantly outweighs the cost.

The short version:
All oil and coolant were fully drained. The coolant filter was bypassed and the cooling system filled with distilled water and Stop Leak HDC Tablets (ginger based, will allow for liner removal if I rebuild in the future). A drill and wheel were used to spin the water pump for several minutes to circulate the mixture. The oil pan and crank case were wiped out as much as was reasonable. Oil filter was changed and oil was added.

I will monitor this engine closely. For now, the engine runs. The truck drives. The oil and coolant have remained separate! After several hours, I will do a full coolant flush and re-fill with normal coolant mixtures and a new filter. I will also send an oil sample for analysis and determine whether a second oil change will be significantly helpful.

Thanks,
Chris
 

·
Aimless Wanderer
Joined
·
929 Posts
I recently found myself in a position where it was worth the risk to try a temporary / quick fix.

I consider this a risky effort and I recognize that it may result in larger problems than just a few leaking cylinder liners. In my case, the immediate benefit significantly outweighs the cost.

The short version:
All oil and coolant were fully drained. The coolant filter was bypassed and the cooling system filled with distilled water and Stop Leak HDC Tablets (ginger based, will allow for liner removal if I rebuild in the future). A drill and wheel were used to spin the water pump for several minutes to circulate the mixture. The oil pan and crank case were wiped out as much as was reasonable. Oil filter was changed and oil was added.

I will monitor this engine closely. For now, the engine runs. The truck drives. The oil and coolant have remained separate! After several hours, I will do a full coolant flush and re-fill with normal coolant mixtures and a new filter. I will also send an oil sample for analysis and determine whether a second oil change will be significantly helpful.

Thanks,
Chris
With running a cooling system stop leak like that you'd be better off leaving the coolant filter bypassed. This filter will stop the particulate matter and slowly deplete the quantity circulating/remaining in the cooling system. This depletion of particulate matter will eventually "wick" the needed matter from the area(s) sealing the internal leaks leaving you again at risk of destroying the engine with coolant in the crankcase.

While I will in no way condone the practice you have enacted; you do have my best wishes. Necessity is the mother of invention and lack of funds to do something right certainly breeds creativity to achieve results.
 

·
Fire App. Mech.
Joined
·
982 Posts
I will monitor this engine closely. For now, the engine runs. The truck drives. The oil and coolant have remained separate! After several hours, I will do a full coolant flush and re-fill with normal coolant mixtures and a new filter. I will also send an oil sample for analysis and determine whether a second oil change will be significantly helpful.
I admire your willingness to try it. I will reiterate what I said so long ago: run plain water or a methanol mixture if it is going to freeze. Do not run glycol. A little water in the oil will evaporate right out again, methanol won't hurt anything either, but glycol is a killer to lube oil.

My dad has been running an old Case tractor with a leaky liner this way for years; for a time he even would drain water off the bottom of the pan before starting in the morning and it still runs just fine. (There is never enough water to make the oil or breather get milky in this engine so it must be when cold only.) But a 1300 RPM old tractor engine is a far cry from a modern truck engine.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top