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Discussion Starter #1
What is the difference in having the EGR turned off with a tune vs doing a true EGR delete?
 

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First let me explain a fully functioning egr valve and cooler so you get a better picture. Hot exhaust gasses are diverted into an egr cooler off the exhaust manifolds, then they are cooled by the egr cooler, and the flow of the cooled exhaust gasses into the intake manifold is controlled by the egr valve.

Egr off in a tune, turns off the egr valve. No exhaust gasses will enter the intake manifold.

However, with the egr turned off in a tune, and "still retaining the egr cooler", you will still have the same "hot exhaust pressure gasses" that drive the turbine wheel of the turbo, pressurizing and dead heading in the egr cooler.

Egr delete, you are removing the egr cooler, and rerouting a coolant bypass plumbing pipe in it's place. No more exhaust gasses deadheading into anything.


Harry
 

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Thanks Harry...Can anyone with a delete chime in with your results? I am hoping this will help with temps and fan running a lot when towing. My coolers are not plugged but our rv weighs around 13k so the truck has quite the load....just want to help keep it cooler. The less the fan runs the better our mileage will be.
 

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When you delete the egr cooler, and still use factory programming, the truck will actually lose some power and be in a mild detuned state. This is because a functional egr system is designed to work with the turbo and fuel program mapping with stock tuning. Custom tuning can bring everything back into proper function with an egr delete, and a using an SCT X3 type tuner with a custom heavy tow tune will make the truck run very well.

A functional egr system on a diesel is designed to help lower peak combustion temps in the cylinders to help control the formation of nitrogen oxide gasses(NOX). NOX is formed at combustion temps above 2500F, but this only happens for a split second and will be dramatically cooled by the time it exits into the exhaust manifold. The drawback of an egr system in a diesel is it causes hotter intake air and bad carbon buildup in the intake manifold tract and intake valves due to the mixture of exhaust and oily pcv gasses.

The positive of retaining egr is that it keeps high combustion temps and peak pressures lower in the combustion chamber, this is because egr is an inert gas(one that is depleted of oxygen). Egr gas is a filler that takes up some the space of the oxygen entering the combustion chamber. By doing so it lowers the formation of NOX, which is the only real reason we have it on all modern diesels, as they have not figured out any other way to control NOX formation better to date.

You can also just block off the egr cooler from the exhaust gasses entering into it by using a stainless block off insert disc plate in the y-pipe inlet to the egr cooler like the one Elite diesel sells. This involves less work and less cost to achieve the same results while still retaining the egr cooler, the cooler then just acts like an additional small radiator for coolant but has no exhaust gasses flowing through it.

The well known secret to obtaining the best performance from a diesel engine is airflow. When you have the proper cooled airflow matched with the proper timing and fuel delivery exiting into a free flowing exhaust, you get a very good running truck. Will it run cooler under heavy loads than a truck running with egr? In most cases yes, this is due to the cooling system no longer having to work at getting rid of the egr cooler temps which can be in the 1100-1200F range. It also helps the coolant itself maintain a better condition as its not subjected to those temps. In a way you have slightly enlarged your cooling system with an egr delete.

With proper tuning, a non egr truck can burn clean without any smoke, pull heavy loads and maintain proper fluid and exhaust temps. Just the formation of NOX may be an issue to our emission laws.

Harry
 

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Eddy
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This is something I'm looking to do in the next couple weeks. What I'm concerned about is that it's possible with my truck being a 06. I will probably throw a light if I remove the EGR valve. I'm looking at using custom diesel's delete kit but leaving the EGR valve in place. I've read here somewhere that could be done. Plus it would still look stock. I will be adding the SCT Tuner but wonder if that would cause a problem? I hear the EGR valve will still open/close and could cause a problem. Could someone chime in on this. thanks in advance.
 

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Boost Junkie
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I have an 05 and didnt get a CEL. The CEL is from the disconnected plug at the EGR valve, not from removing the EGR components. For those that get the CEL before getting thier SCT can easily keep the valve plugged in and have the valve zip tied off to the side. I keep my EGR valve in its stock location andd have it turned off with the SCT. I like that it has a "factory" appearence and it isnt hurting anything being there with the rest of the EGR system deleted.
 
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Does anyone make a dummy plug to connect to the egr wire to "trick" it into reading ok?
If your talking about an electrical signal fooler that attaches to the egr valve connector to give a false signal like it's working, no I have never heard of any device like that for the 6.0.

Even if there was such a device, it would be no different than just leaving the egr valve plugged in but not mounted into the intake manifold.

The problem is, without custom tuning to remap turbo operation and fuel delivery to the non flowing egr system it still won't run right, this is because you have other sensors, such as the mass air flow sensor and map sensors "detecting" airflow and manifold pressure "differences" that are "different" on operational egr and non operational egr.

These differences in pressures and flow effect how fuel and boost is controlled by the pcm. When egr is no longer detected, pcm commands to a fail safe lower power level, by reducing fuel delivery and boost pressures on stock tuned trucks.

Even if you don't get a check engine light, you still can have a pending fault code stored in the pcm. However, without operational egr you do not need as much boost pressure to obtain same as stock power, or higher power levels, as you no longer have diluted intake air. Just the fuel and boost needs to be readjusted to match this new way of breathing.

Hope I didn't confuse you too much,

Harry
 

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:whs

Guys Harry is right. I ran my truck for 8 months with no tuner and an egr delete. If an engine is running expecting something that is turned off it won't run perfect.

I finally bought an SCT with some tunes with egr deleted in them. Mileage was the most noticeably improvement but faster turbo spool and better boost PSI under load. I run the stock tune and also my tow tune. The economy tune is only slightly better than stock so I just stick with stock most of the time. If you do a delete budget for an SCT. I'm glad I did.

Wes
 

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Thanks guys for the info. I had a blown 03 motor that i replaced with an 05 that already had the delete kit (from sinister) in it. It was a lawn service truck a guy bought at auction that had been rear ended. I was able to test drive the donor truck and pull the motor myself.When I put the 05 motor and trans in my 03 truck I used the 05 ficm and pcm because i thought thats what would have to be done. I had to use the pcm from the 03 truck to get it to run correctly, trans to work, and for the Right half of the dash gauges to work. I have noticed that the motor when in the donor ran much better (more power and a lil black smoke) than it does in my truck. Would this be because Since I had to use my stock 03 pcm and the 05 pcm probably had some sort of tune like you described?? Is there anyway I can had the 05 pcm tuned to work in my 03 truck with the necessary program for the deleted egr and still have everything else working corectly??

Also I have been thinking about puting my 03 turbo on since the compressor inlet on it doesnt have that "tapperd" inlet like the 05. Seems like it would get more air or would it just be a waste of time??

Thanks in advance
 

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There are differences in the 03' and 05' model engines that could definitely affect the way it runs with the wrong pcm installed. Some of the 05' yr models did not have a mass airflow sensor, does yours have one? The wiring harness on your 05' engine is different than the harness on the 03' engine. So I assume your running a 05' engine harness with a 03' pcm. But you stated this was the only way to get the trucks dash and transm to work correctly, by using the 03' pcm. Since the truck runs this way then it would be easier to just keep using your 03' pcm like you are now, but have it custom tuned with an SCT X3 tuner to regain back whatever power level and awesome shifting you desire. This would be much easier than trying to rewire in the 05' pcm. I would suggest contacting Mike at KEM Performance, he could take care of your needs on this, I've been running his tuning for years.

http://www.kemperformance.com/Products_Detail.php?ProductID=32

Harry
 

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Forgot to mention, your asking about using the 03' turbo, it has a different housing mount configuration than the 05' does, so it will not fit unless you change the mounting pedistal. The 03' turbos whistle more and are claimed to move a little more air, but also have more lag off the line. With custom tuning your 05' turbo will work just fine.

Harry
 

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You mean the PCM?

Harry
 

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Forgot to mention, your asking about using the 03' turbo, it has a different housing mount configuration than the 05' does, so it will not fit unless you change the mounting pedistal. The 03' turbos whistle more and are claimed to move a little more air, but also have more lag off the line. With custom tuning your 05' turbo will work just fine.

Harry
So I’m shutting off my egr valve I’m getting a custome tune for my 05 king ranch what all do I need to make sure is done for the egr to be shut off and disconnected
 
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