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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
it's a 1LW with 600 hp B/S, it has had this flutter for a while now, specially on the upper gears more when grabbing a new gear for the first second or two of acceleration then it disappear.

but this week it got a new 1000 hp marine cam and the flutter is there on most gears while picking up speed fast, but if I just drive it easy is not there.

when it does it, boost gauge is heading to the high numbers mid to high 30's it suddenly drops from 37, 38 40 to 19 20 something, I thought it was the transfer pump but today I installed a fuel pressure gauge and at idle it reads 72, 74 at 1500 shows 88, 89, so I guess I'm good there.

A friend had the same thing and he said it was an injector, I do remember one time it was at the shop for a few days and when it started it was smoking white and idling rough until it warmed up, then every morning would do that for a few days while progressively got better.

what do you guys think?

thank you in advance for your opinions and advices.

Eddy. :usflag
 

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it's a 1LW with 600 hp B/S, it has had this flutter for a while now, specially on the upper gears more when grabbing a new gear for the first second or two of acceleration then it disappear.

but this week it got a new 1000 hp marine cam and the flutter is there on most gears while picking up speed fast, but if I just drive it easy is not there.

when it does it, boost gauge is heading to the high numbers mid to high 30's it suddenly drops from 37, 38 40 to 19 20 something, I thought it was the transfer pump but today I installed a fuel pressure gauge and at idle it reads 72, 74 at 1500 shows 88, 89, so I guess I'm good there.

A friend had the same thing and he said it was an injector, I do remember one time it was at the shop for a few days and when it started it was smoking white and idling rough until it warmed up, then every morning would do that for a few days while progressively got better.

what do you guys think?

thank you in advance for your opinions and advices.

Eddy. :usflag
It's becoming more and more evident that the bigger cams and stock injectors don't go good together. I ran into this several times in the past until I matched bigger injectors to the 800 or 1000 cam. It could possibly be an injector...especially if they are reman. Greg (aka) FarCall explained this in detail to robsredford (another member) on here about problems with the big cams and stock injectors. Maybe he'll be along and help explain better.
 
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Your fuel pressure is too low, Cats new spec for reman injectors is min 85 psi at idle and min 90 under load. Its better running at 100 psi under load with higher hp. The return check valve 281 2725 is required with new style injector body. that may get you pressure up, if not the new transfer pump design will.

You will find the miss to be an injector but will be hard to isolate. Cat had an issue with the remans two years ago and they finally got it fix about 6 months ago. I spent hours of dyno time with on truck, finally just replaced the set, problem repaired. The miss will be more evident with the faster ramp rate of the marine cam. I removed a cam for this reason as the injectors were under warranty. Cat ended up replacing 5 injectors, not due to diagnosis, but by injector serial number. Cat new they had a problem with a range for remans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thank you guys, these injectors came with the truck nine years a go here is the number in the injector, to see if anybody can tell me what they are.

1408993 CAT 1057115


Sledman, I've had this flutter for a good while but my guess is that now with more demand for fuel it's more pronounced and is there when ever I want to hear it, specially in the upper gears, before it was just when I grabbed a new gear for a couple of seconds.

DDS, can you provide the new transfer pump number? here at Pantropic Cat if you want something you either bring part
# or serial number, they wouldn't know what your talking about even if it is a set of gasket.
 

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thank you guys, these injectors came with the truck nine years a go here is the number in the injector, to see if anybody can tell me what they are.

1408993 CAT 1057115


Sledman, I've had this flutter for a good while but my guess is that now with more demand for fuel it's more pronounced and is there when ever I want to hear it, specially in the upper gears, before it was just when I grabbed a new gear for a couple of seconds.

DDS, can you provide the new transfer pump number? here at Pantropic Cat if you want something you either bring part
# or serial number, they wouldn't know what your talking about even if it is a set of gasket.
That's a new number for a 57. When I say new, I mean new at the time it was built. The marine cam will find a bad injector quicker than anything like Greg says...because of the sharper ramp on the cam lobe.

I'd try an Acert check valve in the filter housing before spending $$$ on a new pump. But Greg's real sharp on these so I'd do what he says.
 
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thank you guys, these injectors came with the truck nine years a go here is the number in the injector, to see if anybody can tell me what they are.

1408993 CAT 1057115


Sledman, I've had this flutter for a good while but my guess is that now with more demand for fuel it's more pronounced and is there when ever I want to hear it, specially in the upper gears, before it was just when I grabbed a new gear for a couple of seconds.

DDS, can you provide the new transfer pump number? here at Pantropic Cat if you want something you either bring part
# or serial number, they wouldn't know what your talking about even if it is a set of gasket.
I chased a flutter in mine for 2 years before I finally bought a new set of injectors. New not reman from Cat.
I did have a set of 140-8993 with 1.2 mil miles on them with the 800 cam and they did great. It's all in how the injectors are. But just about everybody I've heard putting a big cam with stock injectors has flutter issues.
 

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This sounds to me, like an injector seat problem. I have fixed a lot of them.
Air in the return fuel to the tank is not hard to check.I just one month ago built me a clear glass and have used it one time.Works better than a clear hose.I went to lunber yard and found some 1 1/2 clear hose.I used about two ft and I install a fitting in the open ends to fit a #8 hose.I used the two part expoxy body panel glue that sets up in fast time and sealed the fittings into the ends.Run a hose from the head up thru the cab and thru the sight glass back to the tank.Go drive it with a load.This one I had done seen the air in tank fuel but the driver had said he did not buy it.That was it and second injector we pulled it was loose and blowing by.It would be better if you can find maybe a piece of larger plactic hose.
 

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With either of the two marine cams........you will not have flutter or missing when the engine is under load no matter what injectors are being used in the engine. It is an injector problem, not a cam problem, if this is occurring while you are throttling into the engine to produce more Hp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
the injectors were pulled, just to replace the o rings when the cam was installed.

but as I've said this was there before but not as much and I think it is with the more fuel from the cam it's more obvious, I'm going to take it to the shop and have them check the injectors.


anybody have an idea how much are the new injectors?

I do miss the day from the big cams when you just replace them all whether they were bad or not, can't do that now days.
 

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Everyone has differing opinions...and I thought for a long time it was injector related....and it probably is....however I find if I install 211-3025 or larger injectors....it goes away....so after typing this..I realize....either way you look at it it's an injector problem.....;-)
 

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the injectors were pulled, just to replace the o rings when the cam was installed.

but as I've said this was there before but not as much and I think it is with the more fuel from the cam it's more obvious, I'm going to take it to the shop and have them check the injectors.


anybody have an idea how much are the new injectors?

I do miss the day from the big cams when you just replace them all whether they were bad or not, can't do that now days.
Maybe I worded my previous post wrong, or maybe it was taken wrong. I was not saying the big cams were the problem. I meant the injectors were the problem...hence my comment about the big cam will find a bad injector quicker than anything. Unless the injectors are top quality, 99% of the time a big cam will make an engine start to flutter. I've seen it myself, hands on, too many times.

Injectors from Cat will run you 5-550 for reman and 685-750 for new
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you, guys too many to list every one, but Thanks a lot.

I took the truck to the shop, they hook the lap to it and couldn't communicate so he automatically assumed that the ECM could be bad, this saturday I'm going to used a friends ecm that I had on my truck before and see if the flutter continues and then will see what's the next step.
 

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Thank you, guys too many to list every one, but Thanks a lot.

I took the truck to the shop, they hook the lap to it and couldn't communicate so he automatically assumed that the ECM could be bad, this saturday I'm going to used a friends ecm that I had on my truck before and see if the flutter continues and then will see what's the next step.
Wouldn't run if ecm was bad. Either his usb link is bad or bad cable/plug. May need breakout cable to read if truck has issues.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
SledMan I was hoping for something like this, but still I'm going to try my friends ECM.

One thing that I notice this morning, when the fuel is cooler it doesn't do it as much and also the fuel pressure goes up a little more.
 

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I had a marine cam in my 1lw for a while. It did everything your trucks doing. It also ran worse when fuel got hot. I went thru 3 sets injectors. Wiring harness. Heck, I even went as far as putting in all new valve springs because I thought it could of been valve float. Nothing fixed the flutter and crap. Finally just put stock cam back in and all my issues went away. Sorry. I'm just biased against those cams. Tuning , injectors and turbo work , you can get all the power you need. Those big cams are over rated if you ask me. Been there and have the free T shirt to prove it. If you like lots black smoke and an engine that is grumpy all the time, fly at it.
 

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What are there for cams available?

I know there is the 800 and 1000 marine cams, but are the cams the same in the 475 and 550? Is the cam in the 600 5ds and 1mm the same as the 550 cam?
 

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if you were to look at a 6nz 475hp and a 7cz C16 you would find the same cam being used. I'm not sure about the 1LW, 2WS, 1MM, and 5DS without a little research.

It is odd that some engines the big cams raise issues and then others they have characteristics of a stock cam, the 5EK my buddy has falls in this category, 30 seconds after startup and you wouldn't know it wasn't a stock cam.
 
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H800T Before spending much more on parts, I would at least inquire into the cost of TruckEngineMachinist's procedure, to me his explanation makes a lot of sense, as to seat deformation.

impending ECM failure is often accompanied by erratic hour meter readings, I don't know if the failure to communicate happens when the engine will still run or not. (normally I get there after the engine quits and will not refire)
 
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