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Discussion Starter #1
Here is the run down....

I have a 2002 F250... not the powerstroke to Build unless you dig into her DEEP...

Well i have been thinking about a 1998.5-2002 Cummins Engine Swap to get about 500+HP for normal street driving.... I know there is a little here and there to do with the 500+HP for the cummy but it is what i want....

WELL.... The Kicker is.... i have a brand new Factory TECH Monster Box Automatic Tranny and i guess to get the Auto Tranny to bolt up to the Cummy it is going to take some TQ Converter work and im not sure what it consists of but the TQ Converter is already a Higher Perf. one and i dont want to hurt it....

Plus we have to look at the down time to get the engine to fit in the chassis and the tranny to work right, the cost of the enigne, the cost of the fab work, the cost of the THIS AND THAT to get the engine in, and then the performance stuff for the 500+HP out of the engine and the engine rebuild parts.....

THEN MY OTHER OPTION IS.....

Tear into the 02 STROKE and build it up to a 500+HP machine.... (120K and i think the engine has had dirt in it before..... DOH!!!!!!!)

Which one do you think is Cheaper, more Fuel Efficent, and streetable.... this is a DAILY Driver and i tow trailers to my races all over east of the Mississippi......

any suggestions would be very welcome and anyone with more knowledge of engine swaps or diesel engines period (everyone) than me will be greatly welcome..... :thanks: :Thumbup:
 

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The Cummins would be a sweet swap, but the $$$ and fabracation is goin gto time consuming, I've heard $8000-$10,000 to do it right...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
CSIPSD said:
The Cummins would be a sweet swap, but the $$$ and fabracation is goin gto time consuming, I've heard $8000-$10,000 to do it right...

But what is the cost to put new rods in the 02 PS and pistons, rings, maybe cylinder work.... compared to the Cummy....
the Cummins will run me $12500 for the kit, engine, and 500+HP set up... only lacking install... BUT, then i will have the tranny dillima and i was wanting to see what people thought would have to be done with that.....

Maybe what i need to ask is HOW BIG CAN The PS Go and still be Easily streetable....????
 

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500 is about the limit for a daily driver, I think Dock boy is right there with out all the juice... A Cummins can go to about 600 for a daily driver and still get good mileage and EGT's. Doesn't advanced adapters make a kit to adapt to the tranny?

If I had the truck and $$$ a Cummins would be right in there!!!
 

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12,500$ Would Get U There With Ur Stroke I Believe.. Ur Lookin At Like 3k For Rods And Then A Girdle Just To Know The Bottom End Is Bullet Proof And Not Sure On Rings And Pistions... Ull Need A Bigger Turbo And Stuff... But I Think If U Were Going To Spend The Money For The Cummy On Just Motor And Such... It Would Prolly Be Easier For You To Build The Stroke.... Imho
 

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What is a cummy compared to a cummins? Is that like a smaller less HP version? LOL :poke: I would do a cummins conversion in my truck too if I had the dough, but really when you get down to it, it makes no sense to spend that kinda money converting a truck over. You might as well go buy you a new 07 when it comes out, or sell what you've got and buy a newer six oh. But chopping a truck up is really gonna kill the value of the truck, and I really would be hesitant on doing one as new as an 02. Maybe in an old 79 or something like that, that would be sweet, but a newer truck, ehhh, I'd sell it for more and go build you up a custom rig if you really want something special. And you don't have many miles on your truck, it's still worth quite a bit I would figure, depending on its condition. Just my opinion on the subject, but just imagine a brand new 06 or 07 compared to your 02 with a newer engine? What makes more sense? Whatever you decide, good luck and have fun! :HappyMugs
 

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Im with ^^, unless you have the time and money to do the swap. I know the Cummins is wrapped in garbage when you buy a dodge and a SD body with a Cummins is sweet, but have fun selling the thing in the future, if you are going to sell it.

Why not wait one more year till the 6.4 PSD comes out and see what it can do. :Thumbup:
 

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i dont see why selling it would be such a problem.... everyone pretty much that i know would love to have a Cummins in their SD... i know if i found one for sale and someone had evidence that they built it right i would buy it in a heartbeat...(cuz noone wants to go buy a GOAT!! then it really wouldn't sell!!:roflmao: )LOL
 

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if your going to do the cummins swap do a 12v it will be so much simplier and most likely cheaper, and the cummins will get better fuel economy then the stroker
 

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i dont think youd get 500hp for only 10k-12k, with a full build and all the supporting mods youd be closer to 20k or maybe more.

Luke
 

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You might as well go buy you a new 07 when it comes out, or sell what you've got and buy a newer six oh. But chopping a truck up is really gonna kill the value of the truck, and I really would be hesitant on doing one as new as an 02....but just imagine a brand new 06 or 07 compared to your 02 with a newer engine?
Well there are a couple things I see here. For starts then you have spent WAY more money and have a bone stock '07 that who knows how it's going to perform or how reliable it's going to be. The newer 6.0L is NOT the engine of choice to make RELIABLE power. The Cummins is WAY more reliable than the 6.0L at that level especially. As for killing the value of the truck that all depends on the craftsmanship of the build. If you do it right and make it look good then it most likely won't hurt it at all if not make it worth more to the right person. If you cobble it together then well.........


You can easily make 500hp with a Cummins for $5K. I've seen it before. Once nice thing about the Cummins is it has WAY more parts availability. I mean look at all the turbo systems out for it. And higher end kits at that. For the powerstrokes there is a couple bolt on turbos and the Hypermax H2E. There are a couple of others that adapt the H2E install kit but there really isn't much redily available in the high hp end of the psd without doing a lot of custom fab work yourself or paying a shop to do the custom fab work for you, as compared to the Cummins.

I'm not sure what the kit costs but you can go to www.fordcummins.com and buy an install kit already for the swap. Would make it a lot easier. I'm not so sure the tranny will hold up to the Cummins very well though. I've not been overy impressed by the feedback I've seen on the Monster Boxs. I do know BTS has a small hand full of their trannies behind very HIGH hp cummins so I know he's got the parts to make it work. Maybe you can sell your MB and get the BTS set up ready to go. Or maybe fordcummins has the adaptor plates available.
 

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Exactly what I mean, with the proper documentation that you did it right, well what exactly is right? Your putting an engine in a truck that it wasn't originally designed for. Is your documentation that it runs? I mean I would love to have a cummins in my truck, but is it really a reasonable idea? No, if you really want speed that bad, it sounds like you already have a pretty nice truck from your mods, why not go take your 12k or so and go invest in a lightning or viper truck that will really blow your socks off! Thats what I have been thinking about for a while now. I could blow a ton on this truck, or just invest in another truck for fun with the same amount of money, and keep them both stock. Not much fun if you love modding trucks like I do, but if you don't have a ton of money and time, well... sometimes you just have to take a shortcut. Just my .02

And GTS, I really meant he would sell the 02 before trying to buy a new 07.
 

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I would buy a 6.0 and torqueshift on ebay , put headstuds and gaskets in it , injectors and turbo from Bean an SCT from DJ and a trans from John Wood and keep it all Ford and have 500 HP for under 10K.

GENE
 

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ooturbopsd, the documentation of the project really has very little to do with if it was "done right". You would have to look at the install job and see if it's cobbled together or if it was a nice job. Stuff like the wireing routed nicely and properly covered in loom. Fabricated brackets made beefy enough for their intended use and made nice and not slopped together and stuff like that. The real fit and finish portion of it done right. You can tell if you look at something if someone actually cared enough to do a nice job or if they just slapped together.

12K isn't going to get you anywhere close to buying a Lightning or Viper truck(SRT-10). I would assume he's got his truck to use it not just as a go fast truck so the Lightning or SRT-10 would most likely be an additional vehicle. A stock Lighting is quick but wouldn't be that hard to keep up with in the PSD. My brother's Lightning has a blower pully, intake, and chip on it and is quite a bit faster than a stock one and he doesn't pull away from me by much. I've actually beat him in an 1/8 drag race mostly due to the 4X4 starts and he couldn't catch me by the end. I'm pretty sure I'd be at least even with a stock Lightning if not beat it by just a tad. Not to mention they have the same PMR problem as the later PSDs. The SRT-10s aren't much faster than a Lightning in stock trim either and parts for it are EXPENSIVE!!!!!

I figured you were talking about him selling his truck to buy the '07. But that's going to cost even more and you will have a stock truck. What's a good asking price for an '02 PSD these days? $28K-$30K at best if it's in real nice shape? How much is a new truck going for to get one that is decently equipped? $45K+ So you are at $15K-$17K and you have a stock truck that you can't get any performance parts for for awhile and you have no idea if it's going to be reliable or not as it's not been proven.

Gene, While I really do like your "keep it Ford" approach you really aren't. You are keeping it IH.:poke: I understand your truck has been holding up quite well however the 6.0L has a very notorius history of not holding up well especially when modded. Yes the head studs and fire rings are going to help one big part of the problem but I just don't think it or the torque shift tranny are all they were craked up to be. The 12 or 24 valve cummins are very tried and true engines that have been proven to be more reliable at the higher hp settings than even teh 7.3L has IMHO. Honestly though Gene I am a very brand loyal person and the thought of putting an engine that is available in another brand in my truck is really hard to do. However in this instance it isn't like Dodge makes the 5.9L. A completely different company does. And if I got one I'd either try to get one out of a OTR truck or at the very least make sure to get a valve cover that says Cummins NOT Dodge on it. And honestly if I had to go through the engine again due to another catasrophic failure there is a good chance the new engine will have 6 pistons all in a row.
 

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New trucks definitely aren't 45k, we bought a brand new f-350 6.0 for 35k, lariat and such, i mean if you want a king ranch, ok thats different. But assuming he was going to go back with the 250, if he even got close to 20 for it, then used the 15 or so he would have to spend on making 500 hp and installing a cummins, he would have a brand new truck. I even called a ford dealer down here in dallas last week to get a quote on an 06 6.0 250 crew cab 4x4 lariat and it was around 38. Thast a pretty nice truck for way less than 45k. I just think its non economical to try and piece something together like that, why not buy something that has been researched and put together by professionals. I can't see a cummins being that much better than a 7.3 or 6.0, cummins has just been around longer than the 6.0, and the 7.3, new things are coming for it all the time that are opening up for hp.. I don't see it being worth tearing into a 4 year old truck with 110,000mi.
 

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Going to Ford's web site just getting a 4X4 long box crew cab lariat you are at $38K. That's before the diesel option. Ad the PSD with a manual tranny and you are looking at nearly $44K. Add an auto and you are at $45,350. And that's just the bare bones on a lariat. Ya I know you can find them with rebates or last years models to get the price down a little but he'll still have a truck that has the same or less power than he's got now. He'd be way better off to try to build his '02 7.3L than to buy a new one. Not to mention all the problems the 6.0Ls have especially when you mod them. If he waits to get an '07 then the price is probably going to be every bit of the $45K if not closer to $50k because they aren't going to be dealing on the '07s for quite awhile and at that he's going to have to wait several months before they are released. But then to get the power he wants out of his 7.3L he's going to be at the very least pulling the engine and swapping out rods as the PMRs won't hold up. Honestly for the cost of a set of forged rods he could buy a Cummins. The Cummins IS a proven engine to be reliable and stronger and actually capable of makeing more power.

If you don't like tinkering with things and aren't into doing custom fab work then yes I will agree with you. Go buy yourself a newer truck that has more power stock and leave it stock. For the guy that wants a nice custom truck and likes to do the fab work either build the 7.3L up or swap in a Cummins. You WILL be money ahead for the hp level you will be at hands down. Not to mention the sense of accomplishment you will have from doing the work yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
FordCummins is where everything but the motor is coming from..... and i have talked to Roger there for many hrs on the phone trying to figure stuff out especially in the $$$$ department....

My deal is that i can get a <60K CUMMINS for REAL CHEAP.... Like, come pick it up cheap.... :Thumbup: (we are good family friends with a junk yard)... but with this new tranny in my truck and the engine not being 100% perfect there is no way im going to get $25K back out of my truck .... maybe some body work that i can get done for $FREE.99 to remove some of the scratches, and a little TLC here and there and i think that i can get most of that out of it but i will still be in the hole for about $5K or more....

After putting the tranny in i decided that this truck is NOW MINE FOR THROUGH SICKNESS AND HEALTH.....


I dunno.... i think im still confused..... :shrug: ... i might just go to Schied in TERRIBLE Haute, IN and talk to some of them..... :popcorn:



PS... Thanks for all the replys.... :Thumbup:
 

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You would never regret the 5.9... The 7.3 will NEVER be as reliable as the 5.9 at those HP levels. We all know it, we just dont want to say it!!!
 

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Swap in the Cummins and never look back. Even if you get the 7.3 up to that level,future tuning ,and changing injectors and such is so much more difficult than on a Cummins.The Cummins leaves a ton of room to work,the PSD engine isnt nearly as freindly to work on,or hot rod. if you ever changed your mind with a Cummins and wanted 650HP on #2 ,its no problem,try that with a PSD. You can do 500hp single turbo very easily witth a 24V,Don M Mach4,comp box and turbo.Add a fuel system,and head studds to top it off.You can use your trans,but need a custom TC and stand alone controller.Id use a 2000 ir new 24V Cummins,in case you ever have an emissions inspection program,you wont have any trouble if the engine id from the same GVWR class,and as new or newer than the truck it is going into.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
John DiMartino said:
Swap in the Cummins and never look back. Even if you get the 7.3 up to that level,future tuning ,and changing injectors and such is so much more difficult than on a Cummins.The Cummins leaves a ton of room to work,the PSD engine isnt nearly as freindly to work on,or hot rod. if you ever changed your mind with a Cummins and wanted 650HP on #2 ,its no problem,try that with a PSD. You can do 500hp single turbo very easily witth a 24V,Don M Mach4,comp box and turbo.Add a fuel system,and head studds to top it off.You can use your trans,but need a custom TC and stand alone controller.Id use a 2000 ir new 24V Cummins,in case you ever have an emissions inspection program,you wont have any trouble if the engine id from the same GVWR class,and as new or newer than the truck it is going into.

This is kinda the response that i wanted..... :woot:

I was looking at a 2002 24v that i can get but i am still wondering what to do with the TQ Converter... i know that i will need a Custom TC... BUT, is there anyway i can CUSTOMIZE Mine on my Factory TECH MB.... :shrug: .... That darn tranny is BRAND NEW and is rated at 1800 ft/lbs .. but i guess i could find a custom converter..... or should i just go to someone that builds TCs and BEG and PLEAD...???

I think that if i can find the Converter i can get everything going just fine but i want as high of performance converter as i have now if not better....

Plus i just found 3 guys in my area... One i go to college with, and they have a 97 SD, 2000 SD, and 1999 SD all with Cummys.... butt they are all STICKS... not a single Automatic.... Guess i will break the mold here in Central IN if i find what i need..... :evil:
 
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