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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not sure if I should even talk about a Long tractor on here...
But I have one. It is a 610. I am getting a huge amount of back pressure
back through the intake. So much that it is blowing the air filter housing
off. It will run. I have used it like this. The exhaust seems like it is working fine. I am guessing some sort of valve problem. I plan on taking the valve covers off tonight.
What should I look for ? I haveven't worked on this one much at all.
So i really don't even know what I'll see when the covers come off.
 
G

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Does it have a turbo or is it naturally aspirated? Does it smoke heavy, hard to start, and I assume it is low on power? I would definitely run your valves first and see what you come up with there. Almost sounds as if you are getting compression into the intake somehow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No turbo, I hadn't really noticed lack of power but....
I don't use it for power. I just use it with a backhoe and
a scraper blade for driveway.
Its always hard to start cause I don't use it much.
It sits for weeks at a time. And I expect it to run.
Haven't tried to start in a couple weeks just got
the garage clean enough to get tractor in.
 

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If it isn't a valve issue, it could be a cracked head.
 

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The list as I remember for backflow in the intake

mis adjusted valves
stuff on a valve seat
broken valve spring
burned valve
incorrect vent connection from the rocker cover


I would start with a valve adj and a close look at the springs and retainers. Then load it for 30-40 min and check for backflow with a strip of paper about 1/2 the dia of the intake for width held carefully across the open intake. It should pulse slightly in only if it flutters out it has a valve problem.

keydl
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok, I finally got the thing started and in the garage today. (Its cold here)
Pulled off the valve covers...nothing obvious..but...a small snapring
on top of what I would call rockerarm bolt. I'm not to technical....Now from what I can see it didn't come from there it probably was pushed there and got caught on the bolt. It is about a 1/4 inch diameter snapring...I cannot tell where it came from without tearing into the valves..does anyone have any idea,,,,,Oh BTW it is a four cylinder ...made in Romainia...
 
G

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Could be from the end of the rocker arm tube that holds the rockers in place. Get your specs and check your valve clearence first off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OK I'll be tearing into them as soon as I get the battery charged and crank it a few times to see what valve looks funky. I'm guessing I will be able to tell
while cranking it. Then I'll know which one to start with.

Not sure when I'll get time to do it. Got 8 kids and have indoor soccer, homework, softball, and the list goes on. Guy with that many kids should not own a tractor should own a yolk that fits children.....hahahahaha

Thanks for all the advice...It has helped. Whenever I get it figured out I'll be back....
 
G

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I assume you do know what we mean by run the valves. You bar the engine over one valve at a time until it is completely closed and then check the clearence with a feeler gauge between the top of the valve stem and the rocker arm. You don't just crank the motor over and look for one that seems odd. You will need to find the valve lash specs for your engine. The intake and exhaust will most likely be different and each will should be somewhere between .012" and 0.20". There will also probably be a hot and cold settings.
 

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The engine will bar over (slow) and you can check or adjust any that is paired with a half open valve. I often lay toothpicks to mark the ones that I have done.

You can turn the crank 2 turns or 6 turns but the paired valve of a 1/2 open valve is on the base circle of the cam lobe. Take a quick look at the keepers, retainers and both sides of the valve spring for broken spring. Wiggle the rockers and twirl the pushrods looking for slack and excentricity.

Turn the crank and pick which are in the middle of their stroke and adj the other valve for the cylinder, turn 1/2 turn on the crank ant 2 more are ready to adjust. Or get out the book and set it timing mark up and set the ones shown in the book, turn 1 full turn and do the rest.

I would guess broken valve spring but until you spot it, we don't know for sure.
I can't advocate taking things apart with out a plan. If the snap ring held the plug in the end of the rocker arm shaft, the assy may have been operating with out lube and need rockers and shaft.

keydl
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes, thanks. The bar thing is not that easy when the front end is still
on. I don't want to take the radiator off. thought I's try turning over some with the starter. Then adjust If I can get something on it. I was trying last night but couldn't get it a grip of it.
 

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May be too hard to do but you could maybe turn it over by putting something on the pto and turning. The gear reduction may make that impossible though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ALright I may try that. One thing the snap ring I am referring to is too small to be the rocker arm snap ring. It is only about 3/8 ID (maybe a little smaller) about the size of a valve stem. Is there snap rings at the top of a valve stem to hold them in place ? I did rebuild a head years ago ( in school) but I can't remember what holds the valves to the springs to keep them working. I am guessing the plate that looks like it is attached to the spring is held in place with a spap ring that goes around the valve stem. Does that sound right /
 
G

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Almost sounds like a valve keeper. I think I would pull all your rockers off one at a time and look for a valve that is missing a keeper.
 

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Nearly everything is split keepers, that is part of checking the valve under adjustment. You see a little cresent on each side of the valve stem in the retainer. After you pay close attention to the first 2 the next 6 go faster - unless you find a problem.

You are looking for missing 1/2 keeper, distorted retainer, out of register spring coils, split push rod ends, broken rocker ends and broken/loose hold down bolts.

It can probably be barred over with an acessory drive nut - alternator, hyd pump...... tighten the belt and go slow. if you try fast the compression will want to spring it back.

If you find a broken spring bring it to the point that one valve closes and the other starts to open. Piston is up so the valve can't go very far down.
Bump the retainer at a 45 deg angle while holding the valve up with pressure on the seal. It usually takes 2-3 bumps with a 4 oz soft hammer but I have had to do a bunch on a couple. get excited and the valve can be bent.
Put a magnet on the stem to hold it up. Replace the seal

Springs can lose tension - push hard on the retainer 40# or so and it should not move, use a handle (70-80 #) and it should wiggle. I have found a couple (same engine) under 10#, they don't run well that way, same as broken springs, harder to find because there is no visual clue. The dealer wanted $7k to repair the engine :) for him Boss did not know who to blame but Cummins sent a $100 chit for parts after looking at the springs.

Four in a row- they should look the same.

If the top is in good shape the choice is compression tester or gaskets to check the inside.

keydl
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No broken springs. They are all split keepers. And they are all there.
All looks to be working fine. Which to me is bad news. You guys are all been very helpful. Now if one of you would like to move to southern ohio so I can just load it up and bring it over that would help more....

Thanks
If I ever get it right I'll let you know what I find.
 

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Did you check the clearance adjustment? A misadjusted valve that is held open a .001-2 will cause the problem. If a .008 feeler won't clear there is a problem with adjustment. but the best way to set to the proper specs, they are often on a tag on the engine.

Roll each pushrod as you adjust and check for splits at the socket.

If none of the valves are tight, there is another branch on the dicision tree.

Compression test or pull the head and look - there is probably a defective seal on one of the valves. Because the disturbance is on the air intake it is an intake valve, compression test will tell which one as will a visual look at the combustion chambers. I don't know anybody that would pull a head and do one valve but I have met a couple of old timers when I was a kid.

What a compression test will tell you is the relative health of the rings on the other cylinders, it may be time for rings also.

keydl
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I haven't checked valve clearance yet. My first thought when I found the snap ring was that this was going to be easy. Find where it came from and replace it. That didn't work out. I have ordered a shop manual for it. Thought it would be here by now. I am waiting so I can get the clearances right, Now I am just waiting.
 
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