Fuel Mileage Cat MBN

jr cat mechanic said:

worked on several ,dont remember seeing a converter on these ,by any manufactures,ran several 500 hp on dyno,with fan an A/C ON putting 465 to 475 out to wheels.cat says 80% to wheels ,so a 500 would be 450 ,also what HP is this engine, when operating this engine if you are operating in say 1200 to not over 1800,have set to 1800 rpm on rating #some flashes have 4 selections in them ok ,you can flow the fuel,need dyno & cat dealer ok,high flow mufflers from pittsburg power ,straight pipes

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A Pittsburgh Power muffler is actually a Donaldson pat # M100463. You can buy it online from Ryder Fleet Products for a lot less money than PP will sell it for. The next time you're working on an MBN go and pull up the part number and costs of replacing the stock muffler. Don't be surprised at the pricing, but at least you'll know that it isn't a standard muffler any longer

jr cat mechanic said:

thats the reason for getting a par dyno run ,adjusting the FLS=FTS ,CHANGES TIMING AN FUELING,mbn serial # is a bridge engine never seen a catylitic converter on one from factory ,companies usually installl ,acerts yes they do,MBN WILL DO FINE ,FIND A CAT MECHANIC OK ,THATS ALL YOU NEED ,REMEMBER YOU CAN PUT CAM ,TURBO ,INJECTORS ,ALL THE AFTER MARKET PARTS YOU WANT ,DONT MEAN A THING ,NEED SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING,TO MAKE IT ALL WORK,DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ,GET A PAR DYNO ,SET AS HIGH AS CAT WILL LET IT GO,THEN REPOST OK ,YOU WILL STILL HAVE MONEY LEFT OVER

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A PAR dyno run on an MBN is a waste of time and money in my opinion. But I'm a washed up truck driver/owner that hasn't been successful at working on my own truck at all. But here is a video of what can be done with an electronic CAT engine in my hands. Yes I'm like Shultz from Hogan's Heroes "I know nothing"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv9rLMHZe-4

1592RWHp. When the dyno operator stuck his foot in the throttle it was already building 900RWHP @1800RPM. I bet you don't have the knowledge to do that, DO YOU???????????

You have only been taught what CATERPILLAR wanted you to know. Trust me there is a lot more to know then that. LOL

jr cat mechanic said:

dont know everthing ,just amazed how much truck drivers know,really amazed,how long do you have to drive a truck to become a good mechanic, real mechanics are in high demand ,go by cat dealer get job app ,you will do fine

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This is a condescending remark towards all truck drivers. It shows me how little respect you have for them. Remember that the next time your wife sets dinner on the table and you pull up a chair to eat it. If you or she bought it, a truck has brought to the place where you purchased it from. Next time your hungry start a garden and butcher a steer. You may want to think a little bit more about your comments about what you think of a truck drivers before you post negative comments about truck drivers on a trucking website. From this comment were all stupid in you mind, but are arrogant know it alls.

jr cat mechanic said:

certified cat 1989,make a very good living ,fixing what know it alls screw up,action resources,robbie d wood,western distribution,just to say a few ,that did fine with MBN

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Damn look at my response above, you actually confirmed what I gleaned your opinion of use as a group of individuals was in this post. Certified CAT technician since 1989. WOW I'm impressed with that. And I still bet you can't figure out how I got my electronic powered CAT truck to dyno 1592 Hp in a competition. One a different day it dynoed 1606RWHP. Do ya wanna know how???? LOL Or does your CAT trained knowledge know how to do it? By the way that is 1 year old Taylor Dyno that was calibrated before the contest for accuracy

Maybe you should figure out how this truck is producing so much power with an electronic CAT C-16 engine too? Another truck driver that never worked for a CAT dealer or is CAT certified technician. Again it proves my theory........all CAT techs are only taught what CAT wants them to know. You need to step away from the CAT brainwash technology they feed you on a daily basis and think outside of the CAT yellow box they have trained you so diligently to stay in. Yea us dumb truck drivers are know it alls. (SARCASM!!!!!!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCiLJlQ_SgE

More Hp than you can comprehend from a bone stock C-16 short block and a CAT 70 pin ECM

jr cat mechanic said:

know how,they being EPA control us now,will that truck pass emissions,we have to conform to the epa standards first ,formost,built many that were very very impressive ,cat makes all the parts to do it ,marine cams ,turbos,just EPA,alot of the driver technicians turn fuel to one ,before they actually know what is wrong,seen pittsburg power boxes put on ,covers up original problem ,but it all ways shows it ugly head,now repair is costly ,nothing against a hot rod ,c-16s with 2000 hp ,is easy ,problem EPA, I NEVER REALLY NEEDED HELP FIXING AN ENGINE ,STILL DONT, ANYONE CAN BUY A BIG BOSS ECM, GETTING ALL THAT HP ISNT THE PROBLEM ,ITS RELIABILITY AN SERVICE,

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Yep, exactly what I thought. You'd rather argue than admit that you're earlier comments were condescending.

2000Hp isn't easy and can't be done with stock parts, but I'm sure you don't know that. The 211-3028 injector doesn't have enough fuel flow at the tip to build that Hp. But I'll bet you don't know how big you can increase tip size before flow and atomization falls. Because the plunger and barrel in the injector body is only so big. To increase the tips too far actually gets the lift needle chattering. So flow drops. Increasing the tips size too big actually drops internal pressures inside the injector body, so atomization falls off. Things you don't know of I'm sure, while your stuck in your yellow box.

I only worked my own truck for 7 years and 630,000 miles and reliability wasn't an issue. My working combo would dyno 1000+ Hp any day you wanted to test it and you could beat on that all day long on the dyno and not hurt it. In fact I did a massive dyno test one day and had more than 25 pulls on the engine. All of them over a 1000 Hp with the highest being close to 1300Hp. Guess what that truck is still working today and the engine is still the same rods, pistons, bearings, and liners it left CAT with.

jr cat mechanic said:

try to help fix the problem the guy has,not sell a 15 to 30,000 dollar overhaul,making hp isnt the problem,all engines ,same engine in marine 2 to 3 TIMES hp as truck,can be done with cat parts,impress me by fixing a problem by not turning the fuel to it ,you cant,the reason for dyno is to meter fuel ,go as high as possible an keep in EPA WINDOW,BY CHANGING FLS -FTS THAT CHANGES FUEL ,TIMING ,WOW IS THAT HOW YOU GET HP AN TQ,METERING FUEL IS HOW YOU CHECK IT RIGHT,AN CHANGE,RECHECK , ,DID THEY SHOW YOU ON DYNO ,HOW TO DO THIS ,OR YOU READING FROM A PAMPLET,YOU GOT AT PERFORMANCE DIESEL [PDI],YOU ARE A TYPICAL KNOW IT ALL DRIVER

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LOL

You haven't figured it out yet. Yea I'm reading from a Pamphlet that PDI gave me.

Here is a question I know that the guys in St George UT at PDI don't have an answer for. I'm sure you won't have one for it either. You can ask your CAT Technical Consultant the next time he stops by your shop and I'll bet he won't have the answer either.

Why and how does the FLS/FTS changes made in the ECM effect how the injector fires? How do these changes effect the signal sent to the injector change? How does this signal change effect what the injector does as it fires fuel into the cylinder?

The answers I'm looking for has nothing to do with injector pulse width, even though it can be part of the answer.


When you can answer these questions, maybe you'll be worth the time to argue with. At this time you're not.

These questions will never be addressed or answered by anybody from CAT, not even the engineer that designed the injector will answer them for you.

Good Luck

jr cat mechanic said:

FIRST READ BMOELLER MEMBER ON PAGE 2,NOW THE FIRST THING IS EPA W9L AS FAR AS MARINE NO PROBLEM GETTING POWER AN TORQUE,AN KEEP IN EPA STANDARDS ALSO CARB ,DO YOU KNOW THESE PEOPLE,I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN TALKED TO BY THESE PEOPLE ON PHONE ,BECAUSE I WORKED ON TRUCK.NO WORRIES ,MY EXPERIENCE WOULD PROBABLY AMAZE YOU,IF YOU DONT WANT MY ADVICE DONT READ POST ,MY INFO DEAD ON ,IF I AFFEND YOU ,MAYBE YOU SHOULD QUIT WEARING YOUR FEELINGS ON YOUR SHOULDER,I POSTED SEVERAL TIMES HERE WITH ADVISING PEOPLE TO GET A GOOD CAT MECHANIC BECAUSE KNUCKLEHEADS DONE SCREWED HIM OVER,IN THIS DAY AN TIME,MAYBE THESE GUYS NEED DEAD STRAIGHT ADVICE WITH THERE ENGINE ,THE MOTTO PAY NOW GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME,NOT 3rd OR 4th,now fls an fts changes fuel position an rated fuel position,all of these are determined to a point by the specific torque curve an rpm,by changing these you get a wider or longer pulsewidth,thru ecm an info from certain sensors,[do you know which ones],this has to be there before your PDI ECM WILL DO ITS JOB,that in turn changes voltage to injectors [do you know if it is [ ac or dc]if you dont want my advice dont read posts,AGAIN, PDI FLASH IS IT 3200$,I WOULD CHECK A FEW THINGS BEFORE JUST THROWING MONEY AT IT,DONT KNOW HOW MANY TRUCKS IVE WORKED ON STAYED LATE ON BULL WAGONS,FIXING KRAP THAT SHOULDVE BEEN REPAIRED BEFORE THEY FLASHED ECM,INJECTORS, CAM ,TURBOS,THINK REALITY ,THE GUY HERE NEEDED HELP WITH HIS TRUCK ,HE MAY RELY ON HIS TRUCK FOR A LIVING,I HELP THE ONES WHO NEED HELP ,YOU DONT ,RIGHT YOU ALREADY KNOW MORE THAN CAT,OR ANYONE ELSE,OH YES BEEN OUTSIDE BOX MY WHOLELIFE,AGAIN DONT READ MY POST .I THINK I NOTICED THESE NAMES ON A RECENT POST ,LOOK OVER BIGMACHD.GET ALL YOU PDI INFO ,BUY A CAT MANUAL ,COMPARE ,WONDER WHO COPIED

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LOL

Stop reading the service manual or SIS when it comes to the FLS/FTS settings and how they function. What actually happens to the electrical signal from the ECM to the injectors when you make changes to the FLS/FTS?

Yes the voltage to the injector varies. That should be a given considering that CAT puts a warning label about electrical shock on the valve cover spacer saying that the voltage is between 90 to 120 volts. The real part of the question was how does this effect the injector? If you read about how the injector functions in the service manual, why would the ECM need to vary the voltage? What happens to the amperage of the signal? The injector uses the signal to close the spill port. If all the ECM is doing is closing the spill port, why would the signal need to change? The ECM is working as a light switch on the wall to turn on a light in a room......... correct? The ECM is just turning on the injector.......... correct?


You think I don't give advice on how to diagnose problems with these engines. That is an assumption on your part. You don't know me or what I do on a daily basis. You have no idea of the number of people that I talk with on a daily basis about fixing a problem. The gentleman that started this thread is asking why this MBN is getting poor fuel mileage. What is a fairly common problem with the MBN engine that has more than 600,000 miles on it that creates poor fuel mileage and throttle response? I've already warned him about it during a phone call. Why haven't you posted about it here in this thread, since all you want to do is fix it the correct way? This proble can be the reason why the truck is getting 3.5mpg, but you haven't said a word.....why?

You have no idea of what or how I treat people and the time I invest in helping them fix problems. Yet you've already judged me to be something else in your mind.

jr cat mechanic said:

varying voltage an pulsewidth opens solenoid ,longer ,shorter,as the demand changes an or is ask for by the ecm per flash an fuel #s,not reading sis or service manual ,was i that close,maybe learned something at refresher class fuel mileage can be simple or complex,ive seen poor fuel mileage fixed by fixing CAC leaks,actuator on turbo ,or as simple as program ,run overhead,or with set up of truck driver running 1 gear down on a 13 or 18,setting govenor for use either at 1800 ,or 2100,do you understand about govenor if not ask,from first E-model to accert this matters ,i dont really think there is a common problem ever for fuel mileage,it could even be the trailer hes pulling ,no air fairings ,look if what ive said got you tore up ,i hope no one ask a complicated one,loose your feelings,it will be easier,about drivers most tell you they know ,you hear it every day,dont you,i just send most to driver lounge,high horse not me ,i just tell like it is no sugar coating,thats from to many 100 degree days ,really run me out of town ,ha ha ,

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You still don't know why the ECM varies the voltage........do you?

Think of it this way. The solenoid is nothing more than an electromagnet. What does this magnetic coil do? It pulls the actuator assembly up to close the spill port. The actuator has a spring in it that must be over come to close the spill port. If you vary the electricity to the solenoid that is generating the magnetism that is functioning the actuator, which has a spring in it. What happens next?

Maybe you need to Google electromagnets and electromagnetism and how it responds to varying voltage and amperage signals.

Once you do this maybe you need to think about the spring in the actuator assembly that closes the spill port and the fact that the magnet has to over come the spring pressure to close the spill port. The next thing to think about is the internal pressures of the fuel inside the injector body during the firing of the injector. Hmmm....maybe the magnet can't hold the actuator assembly closed enough when fuel pressure rises beyond a certain pressure ???????????? Damn would that mean that the spill port is fluctuating/modulating during the firing of the injector to control internal pressures? Now what would happen if the voltage and amperage increases? Would internal fuel pressure inside the injector body increase? Shiiiiit that can't happen.......can it?

Have I given you enough hints to figure it out now?

I also told you that pulse width had nothing to do with the answers I was looking for, but I see you didn't comprehend that either.

You also seem to not know what I was hinting at earlier about poor fuel mileage and an MBN engine. How hot are the Exhaust Gas Temperatures on this engine on a hard pull? Roughly 1200*F after the turbo. Why does that matter after 600,000 or 700,000 miles? Because 90% of the time the center divider in the exhaust manifold and the volute in the turbine housing of the turbo have major cracks or have totally disintegrated. Why does this matter? It create a huge amount of turbulence. This creates very poor throttle response, which usually results in very poor fuel mileage and throttle response. The problem is not many mechanics will remove the turbo to inspect these areas when a driver complains about poor fuel mileage and performance...........do they? So they never find it and don't know to look for it

I got my panties in a wad when you answered in a condescending reply to a truck driver that you deemed uneducated and not worth of reading his post. You assumed his answer was incorrect and not worthy of the original poster's time to read whether it was correct or not, in your mind. You are the one on the high horse demanding respect and attention from us, yet you show truck drivers no respect in your condescending tone with your answers. You need to go back and re-read how and what you've posted in this thread, because at this point in time, I doubt anybody here is going to honor you in the manner you believe you need to be addressed.

Say thank you

Why?


Because if you can understand what I just posted. I just taught you something that no CAT engineer will admit to. It is one of those things that they sign in their employment contract that can't be talked about.

How do I know about it? Good question.


I have a friend that reverse engineered it with a fuel bench that utilizes a CAT cylinder head and ECM with everything functional in regard to sensors. He can very accurately measure fuel flow and how the injector is functioned by the ECM. He also has an oscilloscope to monitor the signal from the ECM to the injector. But in your world he knows nothing.......yet he taught some very important people at CAT a lesson that I doubt they have forgotten yet. In fact they flew half way around the world to learn this lesson and went home with their tail tucked between their legs afterwards LOL

Yet us dumb truck drivers don't know anything. Hell I'm just a internet keyboard hero in my mind to you.

Good luck